Garndolbenmaen Family - Brick Wall - Jones and Roberts !

[nestagj]

Hi
I wonder if anyone can possibly help.  I seem to have hit a brick wall, not surprising really as they are Jones' and Roberts'.

My great grandparents are John Roberts (b 1858) and Mary Jones (b1858) ; according to the family bible they married on the 16th March 1878 at a chapel in Porthmadog - this has been confirmed by the registrar, address in Tyddyn Helbil, Penmorfa. They married some two months after the birth of their first child John, but he died as an infant.  Their parents were Griffith Roberts (farmer)  and Elizabeth Owen; and Robert Jones (Slate Quarrier) and (I believe ) Elizabeth Jones.  I have a birth entry in the register for a Mary Jones in 1858  his occupation was a joiner (journeyman) resident at Golan, Penmorfa.  I have both families in the census' 

1861 Trip, Dolbenmaen Robert, Elizabeth, Mary and Robert. 
1871 Tanybraich (?), Penmorfa Mary Jones, servant
1871 Tyn y Pistyll,Penmorfa Robert, Elizabeth, Jane and Elinor
1881 Tanycoed, Penmorfa, Elizabeth (W) and son Robert .

1861 Hen LLety, Dolbenmaen, Griffith, Elizabeth, Griffith, John, Elizabeth
1871 Tyddyn Helbil, Penmorfa Griffith, Elizabeth,  John, Griffith, Elizabeth, Mary
1881 Tyddyn Helbil, Penmorfa Griffith, Elizabeth,  John, Griffith, Elizabeth, Mary
1881 Tyddyn Helbil, Penmorfa Griffith, Widower
1891 Bryn Hyfryd, Dolbenmaen (I believe this in Garn) Mary his wife and Griffith Williams (son) ...hers
1901 Bryn Hyfryd, Dolbenmaen (I believe this in Garn) Mary his wife and Robert Williams (son) ...hers

1881 MYnydd Glas, Penmorfa John, Mary, Elizabeth, Richard 6mths....Richard is not named in the bible
1891 LLys Ifor, Dolbenmaen (Garn) John, Mary, Robert Jones,
1901 LLys Ifor, Dolbenmaen (Garn) John, Mary, Robert Jones, Griffith, John Richard
1911 LLys Ifor, Dolbenmaen (Garn) John, Mary, Griffith, Marie 33 years, 7 children of whom 2 are alive.

I have details of the births, many deaths - some quite tragic; and the marriages for the Roberts' also  the entires from the burial register in Dolbenmaen.  What I don't have are birth registrations for any of Griffith and Elizabeth's children.... I was researching this family in the late 1980's when the local registrar was quite happy for me to go to the office and trawl through the indexes - those were the days    Hence why I have all the details but no certificates.

Griffith Roberts remarried Mary Williams, formerly Jones with whom he had twins who both died within a month of each other aged around 18 months...their older brother Griffith also died at this time and was buried on the same day as one of his sisters. I have there birth certs for the twins.

I believe only three children of Griffith and Elizabeth lived to adulthood - John, my great grandfather and two sisters Elizabeth and Mary - they registered the deaths of their twin sisters.

I also have the marriage of Griffith Owen and Ellen Williams in Llanystymdwy on the 13 Jan 1829 and the baptism of their daughter Elizabeth on the 8 August 1830.

Now I need to try to go back with the Jones' and the Roberts; I have spent hours trying to trace Robert Jones and his wife Elizabeth in the 1851 census and I just can't seem to be able to get any that matches.   The birthplaces are Dolbenmaen, Penamorfa and Ynyscynhaearn.   I can't even seem to get a decent corresponding marriage. 

It doesn't help that the parishes of Dolbenmaen and Penmorfa seem to be interchangeable and Cannot see which of the Dolbenmaen registers are online.   I suspect that we have a conversion to non-conformism in the 1870's because of where my g grandparents married but the parish church was where they chose to bury their families and a couple of later marriages are there.

I hope that another pair of eyes may be able to see what is right under my nose !

Thanks for reading my saga - if I find more I will post.......going after Griffith my gg grandfather now !
Nesta





 

[scott47]

I noticed your brick wall and I am also searching info on a family from Garndolbenmaen. I also noticed it was dated 2016. Have you made any progress?

[nestagj]

Hi Scott.
Unfortunately I put them on the back boiler where they have remained.

How have you got on with your family ?

Nesta

[scott47]

Hello Nesta, Not much further on mine. My grandfather James Oscough Jones was well we think born 1914 Christmas Day address Lon Get according to a school record and Anne Jones as parent/guardian. Still no birth record found. Also someone came forward to say his father Evan John Jones was born at Lon Gert 1918 mother being a daughter living there at the time. He went to live with the Owen family at Tyddyn Drain and then to a Mrs Griffiths a widow at Ty'n y Rhos and then to Bontnewydd children's home. So the plot thickens.

Oscough must of meant something to my Grandfather as my mother has Oscough as a middle name and so did her brother the search goes on.

Thank you for replying.
Regards Scott

[despair]

I think you may have a typo re James Oscough Jones birth-the year should be 1904.If you trace Lon (y) Gert through different censuses you will find it is latterly occupied by Hugh and Ann Jones's family.
The  last record says they have been married 24 years,had 8 children,6 of whom were alive at census time.I can account for 6 from census records,so if the others died in infancy between censuses,all children would be accounted for,not including James,or one could have died and James be missing from the record.The last know child Annie also appears in the school registers with Hugh as parent,so I suspect he dies sometime in 1912.Do you have James marriage certificate from 1930 which should confirm his father?
In the absence of any other. evidence I would favour some connection with an Ascough family,much more common(e.g. a Matthew Ascough married in Bangor in 1909),though I can't find any James who might fit the bill,not even a James Ascough,who might have been adopted!

Regards
Roger

[scott47]

Sorry typo error on James Oscough Jones born abt 1904. I have marriage certificate states Hugh Jones (deceased) as father.
We have thought about Ascough but as always a needle in a haystack.
Happy hunting

Regards Jeanette