Author Topic: Missing Dunoon family - help please  (Read 1661 times)

Offline jcjc123

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Missing Dunoon family - help please
« on: Sunday 22 May 16 18:30 BST (UK) »
I'm hoping Dunoon not being massive, someone local might have a knowledge or be able to help in some way, i can't find any of this family branch but know for certain (from family stories) that they were there.

The mainstay of the search is Vera Logan 1916-1993 (nae Cheetham).
She inherited a large house in Dunoon from her parents possibly around 1946 when her father died.

Vera's parents were John & Elizabeth May Cheetham
It was the family home where John & May lived with their children around 1920/30's. (both born around 1885).

May died pre 1946, John in 1946, when the house passed to Vera, who was married to Eric Logan they lived there and had one son who would be around 65 now.  I have no idea the sons name/dates etc.

Vera (now Logan) was still living there in the 1970's (i've no idea what happened to her husband)

So i'm expecting to find the death/grave of Elizabeth May Cheetham/Whiteside and her daughter Vera Logan/Cheetham at the very least, but coming up empty.

The address on Johns 1946 death certificate is 'Ashbourne, Royal Crescent, Dunoon' i'm not sure if that's the illusive family home or a hospice etc but can't find 'ashbourne' anywhere

I'm planning to be in Dunoon in a few weeks so would like a sense of purpose, a house address to look at, a grave etc. To help understand this branch of the family better.

Hope someone can help
Primarily Startup, Dickson & Cranston, with branches in baggs, Cheetham, Keir, Fosyth, Marshall & Logan. Regions mainly Scotland & the borders & Greater London area.
Many Naval ancestors and connections to Canada & American.

Offline ev

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Re: Missing Dunoon family - help please
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 22 May 16 21:59 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this helps but SP has a death for an Elizabeth Mary Cheetham(other surname Whiteside) 1936 , Lanark , born c1891.

Perhaps you have looked at that already  :-\



ev
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Offline jcjc123

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Re: Missing Dunoon family - help please
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 22 May 16 22:52 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this helps but SP has a death for an Elizabeth Mary Cheetham(other surname Whiteside) 1936 , Lanark , born c1891.

Perhaps you have looked at that already  :-\

ev

thank you, but that's confused me even more
the certificate shows her as elizabeth mary gallacher, and that she was living with a widower named gallacher when she died, he notified the death,
it shows her maiden name whiteside but married to jack cheetham.......i know john/jack are interchangeable so i'm pretty certain the husband is right and it's my woman, the area Camlachie is also where her eldest child was born so there's a connection but that neither her husband nor children notified her death but the new gallacher connection did, it's throwing me.....s
he's changed her name to gallacher while still being married to cheetham, and it's a gallacher that's notified of her death...what's going on there!?

Primarily Startup, Dickson & Cranston, with branches in baggs, Cheetham, Keir, Fosyth, Marshall & Logan. Regions mainly Scotland & the borders & Greater London area.
Many Naval ancestors and connections to Canada & American.

Offline DonM

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Re: Missing Dunoon family - help please
« Reply #3 on: Monday 23 May 16 02:48 BST (UK) »
Elizabeth and John were divorced in 1931, she then married John Gallacher an engine fitter in 1933. 

Here is the link for the Divorce.  http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/welcome.aspx  select Search enter John Cheetham and click the phrase box.

In 1930 Ashbourne was owned by the Estate of Mrs. Mary Jamieson and it had a couple of different tenants.  Odd thing is there are no Cheetham's in any of the valuations from 1855-1930 for Dunoon.  Lots of Logan's and several did hold property. 

John and Elizabeth were from Ireland and married there in 1907 he was a portmanteau maker when Vera was born in Glasgow on 14 May 1915 at 15 Delburn where they lived until 1920 and then there is nothing on him until the Divorce and his death in 1946.  They are not in the 1925 or 1930 Valuations.  There is one John in Stirling, a painter but her is also in the 1920 which rules him out.

Given what you know now, I would suggest you obtain Eric's 1982 and Vera's 1993 deaths in Dunoon from Scotland's People as it will give you the addresses where they lived.  You can also stop by the Library when you get to Dunoon, where you can likely get a copy of Eric's and Vera's obit from the Dunoon Observer it might also say if they were buried or cremated.  Then wander over to the local council Office and find out who owned the property where Eric and Vera lived in 1982 when he died.

Don
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Offline jcjc123

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Re: Missing Dunoon family - help please
« Reply #4 on: Monday 23 May 16 10:14 BST (UK) »
Elizabeth and John were divorced in 1931, she then married John Gallacher an engine fitter in 1933. 

Here is the link for the Divorce.  http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/welcome.aspx  select Search enter John Cheetham and click the phrase box.

In 1930 Ashbourne was owned by the Estate of Mrs. Mary Jamieson and it had a couple of different tenants.  Odd thing is there are no Cheetham's in any of the valuations from 1855-1930 for Dunoon.  Lots of Logan's and several did hold property. 

John and Elizabeth were from Ireland and married there in 1907 he was a portmanteau maker when Vera was born in Glasgow on 14 May 1915 at 15 Delburn where they lived until 1920 and then there is nothing on him until the Divorce and his death in 1946.  They are not in the 1925 or 1930 Valuations.  There is one John in Stirling, a painter but her is also in the 1920 which rules him out.

Given what you know now, I would suggest you obtain Eric's 1982 and Vera's 1993 deaths in Dunoon from Scotland's People as it will give you the addresses where they lived.  You can also stop by the Library when you get to Dunoon, where you can likely get a copy of Eric's and Vera's obit from the Dunoon Observer it might also say if they were buried or cremated.  Then wander over to the local council Office and find out who owned the property where Eric and Vera lived in 1982 when he died.

Don

I'm utterly speachless! Thank you so much!
Thanks to EV above, i've found mary elizabeth died in the same area her kids were born which mades me wonder if they'd split up, she moved in with mr gallacher and her husband john went to dunoon after the divorce (this is against all family stories where may 110% lived in the dunoon house).
You're findings very much support that theory, an actual divorce etc. it would also explain the lack of data pre 30 in dunnon. Though i did find john in 1907 as a grand nephew staying with macintosh family in dunoon as a child (Mc Arthur St Crinan Aln Cott) i have nothing further but it would give a dunoon connection and the reason he moved there after divorce.

I had also found a marriage in 07 and that she was from cork but hadn't enough info to be certain it was her so thanks again for confirming.

I have johns death cert which shows the ashbourne address, but it again flies in the face of family stories so i'm now wondering who lied and what they were actually trying to hide (the stories are pretty bad so it's not glossing over the facts). Likewise may/elizaebeths death certificate i'd be very interested to understand what she actually died of - i've no idea from the complicated scrawl, i might post it for interpretation, i'm starting to suspect it's alcoholism or similar.

If it's not a big ask, can you tell me how you found this data? I often find that i hunt and hunt and find nothing, then ask here and within minutes people like you supply masses of data, is this stuff i should have been able to find myself but i'm not looking in the right places?

What you've found is amazing to me and very very much appreciated
Primarily Startup, Dickson & Cranston, with branches in baggs, Cheetham, Keir, Fosyth, Marshall & Logan. Regions mainly Scotland & the borders & Greater London area.
Many Naval ancestors and connections to Canada & American.

Offline DonM

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Re: Missing Dunoon family - help please
« Reply #5 on: Monday 23 May 16 13:21 BST (UK) »
Family stories tend to get twisted over time especially when there are young ears around.

Everything is from Scotland's People with the exception of the Divorce which came from the National Archives data base.

Valuation Rolls are on SP - left hand side below Census.  They cost only 2 credits.  They give you ownership/tenant/occupant.  It has this great feature at the bottom the search entry screen that lets you also search by place name so you enter only Ashbourne and select Dunoon and it will bring up the property. It does not give you families.

There are no Cheetham's in Dunoon or Argyll in 1911, the lad you found in the 1901 in Dunoon was John Fletcher Cheetham born in Glasgow in 1896 the son of William Cheetham and Jeanie Cassells, maybe a nephew of John's or maybe a coincidence.  Other than this single entry there are no other Cheetham's in Dunoon in any of the Census years. 

Don
I have turned off all email notifications, thank you.

Offline jcjc123

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Re: Missing Dunoon family - help please
« Reply #6 on: Monday 23 May 16 13:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks, I think I need to really spend some time getting to grips with the national archive, I seem to be missing a lot of what it has to offer
Thanks for the grand nephew info too
It leads me to think I need to check the Logan line, maybe veras marriage to a Dunoon Logan is what took John to Dunoon after the divorce.

The dunoon house was the centre point of family memories, that May lived there and that is was owned / inherited.

The family inherited when May died, apparently money and a house in Dunoon. Very odd as her death address is a Glasgow slum....

Questions questions...



Primarily Startup, Dickson & Cranston, with branches in baggs, Cheetham, Keir, Fosyth, Marshall & Logan. Regions mainly Scotland & the borders & Greater London area.
Many Naval ancestors and connections to Canada & American.