William Oldfield mystery

[lizdb]

Hi
Normally I (along with others) enjoy fiddling around doing a bit of detective work trying to solve various mysteries on here. But this is a mystery in my own research, and I wondered if any of my fellow rootschatters would like to have a look around and see if they can see anything to help solve it!

I am looking at William Oldfield (I am descended from his sister, Elizabeth), bn 1841 Sheffield.
Born 18 Feb 1841.  Christened 5th May 1841 Sheffield Parish Church.

His parents are John and Elizabeth. Father John is a grinder, or fork grinder. Family is very into "grinding"
He is on 1841 aged 3 months with family in Fitzallen Street, Brightside Bierlow.
He is on 1851 aged 10 with family in Fitzallen Street
He is on 1861 aged 20 with widowed mother at Fitzallen Street, now following in family tradition as is a fork grinder.

When it comes to 1871, the only contender I found was one aged 30, married to a Sarah (prob Davies, marriage 1862), living nearby in High Street, Brightside Bierlow.  This one is a crane driver.

I looked high and low for any other William of this age in earlier censuses (who might be the one who ended up a crane driver) but there were no other contenders, so I accepted that this one was "mine" and thought well of him, having broken the mould and got out of "grinding" !

William-the-crane-driver can then be followed through all the censuses up to his death in 1927.

BUT
Then I found a criminal record, for HMP Wakefield, to say that on 8th April 1881 (just after 1881 census) a William Oldfield, age 40, born Sheffield, and a Grinder, was convicted of "Rogue, Vagabond and exposing his person", and spent 3 months in prison!  The record indicated he had had a military past.
This posed the question - are there 2 William Oldfields of similar age bn Sheffield around? Or is this criminal actually the same one as the crane driver?

I took the view there are two people - the crane driver was settled as a family man by 1871 and was with them in 1881 and had no indication of a time in the military. And he was a crane driver since 1871, not a grinder.

So, the second question - which one is "mine"? Is he the one who changes occupation and his life can be followed through  , OR is that actually someone else, and mine is the one who had a time in the army and then in HMP Wakelfield?    And , given that ONE of these two is mine and can be found in earlier censuses with family growing up in Fitzallen Street, where is the other one so he can be ruled out?

The occupation of grinder on the prison record maybe gives slight weight to William-the-criminal being mine.
BUT - at the baptism of Sarah Elizabeth, eldest daughter of William-the-crane-driver, the address given is Fitzallen Street,, which as you see from the censuses was very much the family home of "my" William! So this gives weight to W-the-crane-driver being "mine" as originally thought!

I guess maybe the only answer is to get the marriage cert of William to Sarah, to see if father is John the fork grinder or not.

By why is there ever only one William on any census, if there are 2 of them around?

But I thought I'd throw it out to you lot first! Maybe a newspaper report on the W-the-criminal incident?

Thanks!

[GailB]

Hi Liz

I think the crane driver is one and the same as the grinder. The 1861 Census has two Oldfield families living next door to each other. The first is a James Oldfield, grinder age 35 with his wife Elizabeth, four children and one servant Sarah Davies age 17 born in Nantwich, Cheshire. This looks to be the same Sarah married to William the crane driver after 1871. The second Oldfield family would appear to be the one with widowed Mum Elizabeth and your William the grinder.

Gail

[lizdb]

That's why its so great when a "second pair of eyes" has a look. Thanks GailB.

I had completely missed that James and Elizabeth had a servant called Sarah Davies who fitted the criteria for William-the-crane-driver's wife!

This James (living next door) is William's older brother, who as you see went into fork grinding like everyone else.

So - if Sarah was lodging with him, that gives more weight to William-the-crane-driver being mine!

And, you are saying that the one who was arrested in 1881 (who then said he was a grinder and had a military past) is the same one?  And yet, the crane driver had been crane driver for over 10 years by then, so why say he was a grinder? And no sign of any time in the army. The Regiments listed in the criminal record were abroad at the time of earlier censuses, so that one probably wasn't at home with his family, as W-the - C- D was?

[GailB]

Yes still lots of questions Liz. I guess the only way to know for sure is to order that marriage certificate. 

Gail

[lizdb]

The marriage cert will further confirm (or otherwise) that William-the-C-D is mine, if it gives his Dad as John the grinder. But with Sarah living next door with Williams brother in 1871, and then William the CD and Sarah christeneing their child with the Fitzallen Str address, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to point to that. I am now fairly happy that William the CD is mine.

But that does leave the question of whether both Williams are the same person? Was my William also the "flasher"?
There is a lot to indicate the criminal is a different person - Seems strange that he was recorded on 3rd April with his wife an family, as a crane driver (that he had been 10 years earlier) on the census, but then just a few days later is recorded as being a "rogue and a vagabond" and a grinder, with a military past.

If the criminal is a different one, then OK, he may have been away in the army on some censuses, but where is he as a child?

I was rather hoping there would be a newspaper report of the flashing incident, that might just mention his family .......

[GailB]

Yes I was just thinking that the William who was convicted is possibly a different person altogether. It just doesn't make sense for him to be your William.

[lizdb]

In many ways it doesn't make sense.

But until we can find out something that rules him out, or proves there were two different people,  it remains a possibility that he is one and the same person. And at the moment there is only ONE William Oldfield of right age bn Sheffield who is a grinder around ..... and that is "my" one that changes to being a crane driver!

[GailB]

Hi again Liz

I have just been looking at the Quarter Sessions Records for Wakefield on Ancestry but I have not come across the criminal record. However, I have found some "Orders" dated 18 October 1880. I don't know what they actually relate to but could be some sort of payment for military services? Perhaps the age was out a little on the criminal record? This would mean that there would most certainly be two William Oldfields of similar, but no exactly the same age?

Name: William Oldfield
Age as at 1 April 1878: 40
Date of Appointment: 17 April 1866
Services to 1 April 1878: 11 years, 11 months
Salary on 1 April 1878: £83 4 shillings
Emoluments: £7
Total Salary and Emoluments: £90 4 shillings
Amount of Pension calculated on West Riding Scale: £34 11 shillings 6 pence

Don't know what to make of this ?

[lizdb]

Isnt that a register of Officers?  i.e Prison officers.

Therefore there was a 40 yr old William Oldfield working in HMP Wakefield in 1878 - not neccesarily born in Sheffield though.