help please with NSW Liverpool Asylum

[kit54]

Hi,

Please can anyone help?

I know that Joseph Raven died in NSW, District: Liverpool in 1860.

Previous to this, he had been admitted (on a few occasions) to the Sydney/Liverpool Asylum.

Please, can anyone help me to find his burial?

Many thanks,

Kit

[Neil Todd]

His death. I don't believe that there would be a memorial, but if there was I am fairly sure none have survived. Some were buried on the Asylum site others in paupers graves at Liverpool Pioneer Cemetery.

JOSEPH RAVEN
Ref # 4194/1860
AGE 77 YEARS
Liverpool Sydney

Neil

[kit54]

Thanks very much for that Neil, I really appreciate it

Please, do you know if there is any way that the actual burial record could be found (there must have been some sort of church service? - he was church of england) and the exact location where he was buried ie in the asylum grounds or the Pioneer Cemetery. I'm sure it would be a pauper's burial, with no headstone.

Thanks again,

Kit

[Neil Todd]

I cannot find a record of his burial, doesn't mean there isn't one particularly if he was buried at the
C of E in Liverpool. But you would have to contact them. The records are not online. That is one old Church for this country. St Luke's. I have been there a couple of times as we used to live in Liverpool area in another life. Contact details are on their site.

See: http://www.stlukesliverpool.org.au/history/

Neil

[majm]

Hi there,

A NSW Death registration (please also consider obtaining the Official Transcription as an alternative to certificates) are very detailed.  There's several sections, one is the family history section, one is the medico section, and the final section is the equivalent of an English burial order.  So, you will learn the details of where buried, the clergyman, the denomination, the funeral director from the NSW BDM death registration.

Neil has already posted the registration number. 

JM

[kit54]

Hi Neil and JM,

Thanks very much for your replies.

JM - please can you tell me what sort of information is usually contained in the family history section of the Death Registration - does it usually contain information on the deceased's parents and spouse? Do you know if ex convicts Death Registrations tend to have the same information as people who were not ex convicts (surely, because they had no family network, these details would be lacking?)

Thanks,

Kit

[Neil Todd]

Hi Kit,

I think the information as you put would be sparse indeed. It would be unlikely that any informant on the DC would know of family connections, spouse etc, years in Colony or any other.

Neil

[kit54]

Thanks for that Neil - It's what I would have expected! Shame!

But thanks a lot for your help,

Kit

[majm]

Hi Neil and JM,

Thanks very much for your replies.

JM - please can you tell me what sort of information is usually contained in the family history section of the Death Registration - does it usually contain information on the deceased's parents and spouse? Do you know if ex convicts Death Registrations tend to have the same information as people who were not ex convicts (surely, because they had no family network, these details would be lacking?)

Thanks,

Kit

The amount of family history detail on NSW BDM death registrations is wholly dependent on the informant's own knowledge.  And sometimes, it is unreliable due to grief rather than lack of knowledge.    In NSW, Civil registrations commenced in March 1856. 

If the NSW BDM reference number contains the letter "V" it is not a death certificate.  "V" refers to a Volume in the Early Church Records series, and where included in the "Deaths" index, it refers to a burial record.  Burial records historically do not contain family history details, regardless of whether the person had been subject to the sentence of a court.      You may be surprised at how many convicts knew the names of their parents and shared that information with their own partners and children. 

Your Opening Post asks where to find the burial for your chap, death in 1860, registered Liverpool.   You will find that information recorded on the NSW BDM death certificate, and on the alternative (cheaper) document, (and well recognised by family history groups etc)  which is the Official Transcription. 

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx

I have NSW official transcriptions deaths for several people transported to NSW in the 1790s, who died in the 1850s and 1860s.   The NSW BDM index did not give their parents names, so at first glance many would assume there was no family history on the certificate.   However, the document did give the name of the spouse, and the details of the children of the marriage.   The marriage of course was back in the early 1800s.   I sought out the original parish register for that marriage, (so I went back through the transmitted records) and on that register was the ship of arrival, and the status (Bond/FS etc), and witnesses. 

The dots were then joining up with the family Bible, family private papers etc.   All part of the validation process.

An official transcription is around $20Au.

JM  (Add, baptismal records include parents names, and can include their ship of arrival etc.  )