Lavillia Jane and David Williams

[majm]

Thanks Judith for those newspaper  cuttings,    I have read through them carefully, hoping there would be a mention of the miners who were working with Joseph, and yes the witnesses names are mentioned.   Sadly, none with the surname WILLIAMS.  So perhaps he was not yet known to the family, or perhaps he was on a different shift or at a different mine with the AA Co, or perhaps not even with the AA Co.

I am concerned that the NSW BDM's register of the 1877 marriage may have the usual elusive blanks, as it is NOT registered in any of the Sydney BDM districts.  I am concerned that NSW BDM may have not ever reconciled their summary returns with the original registers, or perhaps it was a registry marriage, with summary info only.   

Until we have first hand info supplied by David WILLIAMS about himself it will be difficult to establish his parentage.  In my experience of that era, most of the NSW births registered have the father as informant rather than the mother, which is why earlier I suggested obtaining official transcription of the baby our OP names as James Henry.    Without that info it may be very difficult to find his death.   

Suzansarg, here's a (now lengthy) thread I did up some time ago re the elusive blanks on many NSW BDM marriage certs : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0

NSW BDM online marriage index
# 4990/1877 registered Wallsend
WILLIAMS David and HILL Lavilla Jane

NSW BDM online birth index
# 20916/1880 registered Wallsend
WILLIAMS  James Henry
parents as David and Mary Jane   (JM gently mentions "Mary Jane v Lavilla Jane v Lavilia Jane v Lavillia Jane - these registrations were all in 'long hand'. Afterall, the typewriter did not arrive at NSW BDM until after WWI and the indexes themselves were not compiled until the 1930s  )

Some thoughts:  To try to find possible decade/year of the death of David WILLIAMS

  When Lavillia's death cert is available, it should show if she was a widow at the time of her death.
  When Lavillia's children married, any (particularly the girls) who were not yet 21 when marrying would have required parental consent to marry.  The name and relationship of the person giving consent should be recorded on even the summary info forwarded to NSWBDM and thus be on the register.   
  Depending on the year for those marriages, it is even possible that NSW clergy would note 'dec' or deceased or perhaps the symbol †  against the details of the parents on those marriage certs, particularly for marriages after around 1899.   


JM

[majm]

Hi

Just listing some possibles for our OP's David from the Newcastle Herald
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/138836798 10 April 1889 witness to fatal accident at Adamstown on Waratah Co's site.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/137186733 8 March 1894 missed Jury duty

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/133199565 23 Aug 1894 family notice inserted by David Williams of Adamstown, in memory of his late father.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/138257998 29 Nov 1902 Tram accident


and listing some NOT THIS CHAP also from the Newcastle Herald
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/133366677 19 Jan1903 (wife died some 12 months earlier)

Many other sightings at the free to search Trove newspapers website.  It is difficult without details about David, even a clue as to his year of birth would help or in which locality Lavillia and he resided.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/

JM

[judb]

This is no help really in finding out about David WILLIAMS, and you probably have this anyway.

The son of Lavillia and David - James Henry WILLIAMS died in 1952.  Obviously from the funeral notice the HILL children were still close to James.  There is no mention of a wife for James and he seems to be well known in the Boolaroo district.  ERs have him there from 1930.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/133195877

Some good clues from JM but, as already said, searching with just one forename plus WILLIAMS is tricky, especially as there are so many of Welsh descent around Newcastle.

This is a list of the burials at Sandgate cemetery (near Newcastle) up to 1950.  Of course he may not be there at all but it shows the difficulty of identification.

Williams   David   1894-08-10
Williams   David   1925-11-06
Williams   David   1931-05-06
WILLIAMS   David   1929-09-14
Williams   David   1889-12-03
Williams   David   1887-05-08
WILLIAMS   David   1898-01-05
WILLIAMS   DAVID   1938-06-12
WILLIAMS   DAVID   1914-08-31
WILLIAMS   DAVID   1903-10-07
Williams   David Arthur   1889-12-21
WILLIAMS   David B.   1950-03-05
WILLIAMS   David C.   1930-01-08
Williams   David E   1950-07-29
Williams   David Elliott   1950-07-29
Williams   David J   1916-07-17
Williams   David Robert   1925-09-26
WILLIAMS   DAVID THOMAS   1937-04-06

Judith

[suzansarg]

Thank you all so much. I need to go and read through it all. I said all along this man was a mystery. I'm not half wrong there. 
It's a common name
Again no mention of either of them on each other's funeral notices. Nor on Lavillias headstone.
It's like he dropped off the face of the earth.

I'll read through all the posts now 🙂

Thank you x

[suzansarg]

They lived at Wallsend I am certain. Lavillia is buried in Wallsend cemetery. I visit her often. Her children lived in the Wallsend locality.

David is just an enigma.  As to when he was born I no longer have a clue. I don't know if he immigrated as a free settler.
all I know is he married lavillia and had two children to her and that's all I can find out.

[majm]

following on from Judith's info  including the link to 14 Aug 1952, Newcastle Herald

So gleaning from those several Funeral notices for James Henry WILLIAMS, a miner, and a member of the Lodge...  I wonder where their records are held …. Would it have David’s details there, if so, when did he cease paying any subs?

NSW BDM online death index has his parents as David and Lavillia Jane WILLIAMS, so the informant was aware of the name of BOTH parents (long deceased parents).  Many registrations do not give both parents given names, some don’t even have a given name for one parent. 
 
#23633/1952 registered Teralba District.
WILLIAMS James Henry
Parents as David and Lavillia Jane

I wonder if the informant was Mrs L J Hancock, his sister 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/133564335

So finally a mention of David WILLIAMS as being known in the family as recently as 1952.   

Back to my work desk, as 'real' work can sometimes get in the way of RChat.   

JM

ADD
death registered Raymond Terrace
#16603/1959
HANCOCK Livella Jane (Lavillia J) parents as Joseph and Jane   

[suzansarg]

Lavillia Handcock was the daughter of the elder lavillia and her first husband joe hill.  She married George Handcock. My mother remembers them well but they were older.
Yes sadly work beckons
Again

My greatest thanks x

[suzansarg]

Lavillia was born in 1840. So if David was a year or two older than in 1952 David would have been over 100.

[majm]

Yes, and when James Henry WILLIAMS died, in 1952, and the funeral director was collating the family history information to supply to NSW BDM, whoever gave the info over knew that David WILLIAMS was his Dad.   So, someone in the family knew of David Williams.   Yes, most likely he was long deceased, - likely decades had past - but someone remembered.   There's no BDM police checking that the information supplied is accurate, but the informant is required to sign certifying that to the best of their knowledge they have provide truthful information about the deceased.  So too the medico is required to certify as to cause/s of death an duration of illnesses, and the funeral director is required to sign off as to his section too.

I think it is remarkable that someone who is not a son/daughter of David WILLIAMS has been able to recall his name when giving information for the death registration of David's son, James Henry, particularly when James mum had been dead for around 45 years, and the youngest of her children by Joseph HILL was at least in their mid 70's.   If the informant was his half-sister, Mrs L J Hancock, she would be have been about 80.   Excellent memory. 


JM