"Who Do You Think You Are" Series 13, Episode 5 Ricky Tomlinson

[Skoosh]

These horses were doing hard graft they needed hard feeding, somebody who skimped on feed or left a horse exposed all Winter wouldn't have a horse for very long.

Skoosh.

[Ruskie]

Is it feasbile that horses were stabled at the docks? If you had a horse and cart and lived in a two up two down or in a court, what would be the point of taking home and stabling a horse and empty cart each night? It seems likely that the majority were owned by the large companies, in the same way that haulage and transportation companies operate today, but also including smaller owner operators.

OH has Liverpool dock workers and carters in his tree and I assumed (rightly or wrongly) that they used hand carts.

[LizzieW]

My 2 x g.grandfather was a carter in Hull.  In 1888 he had his horse and cart stolen by his son in law.  The newspaper report quotes IC, alias GS - an elderly man was charged on warrant with stealing a horse and cat the property of GRM.  The elderly son in law was actually 52 at the time, strange because in 1870 when he was also in trouble with the police he was called a young man, he was then aged 34.

My 2 x g.grandfather lived at 122 English St, Hull at the time, which is fairly close to Albert Docks so I've no idea where he stabled the horse.  English St is still there, but where there were houses there are now modern warehouse buildings.

[Skoosh]

In Glasgow carts were often stored in the open ground floor of a building while horses were stabled on the floors above, horse-ramps being installed for this, the attic was used for storing hay & corn, hoists being installed for the purpose. The tramcar depot alone had stabling for nearly 500 horses. This is the scale necessary & would be the case in all big cities. The odd horse in a back-yard is neither here nor there.

Skoosh.   

[IMBER]

I was surprised that RT didn't seem to already know that most people, across England, would have been working class, with many living in crowded slum conditions due to industrialisation. As another poster said, it wasn't exceptional to his family.

Also thought the descriptions of Liverpool's religions was too simplistic. There would already have been many English Catholics in Lancashire, as well as the dominant Church of England. Methodism was popular in the north too and also "Chapel" from the many Welsh Immigrants into Liverpool. There are also all the religiously mixed families, which contradicts the exaggerated "sectarian" narrative of the programme

I was confused as to why they insisted on using the word "Protestant", incessantly, to describe a family who were Church of England?  I wouldn't describe the CoE as a strictly "Protestant" church, not in the same way as Scottish Calvinist is for example. The CoE still retains many Catholic features.

As with the Liz Bonnin episode, I thought there was too much political agenda and supposition going on

Seems the Queen disagrees re the Protestant Religion.

https://www.royal.uk/coronation-oath-2-june-1953

Imber

[Ruskie]

I quite enjoyed this episode. At the beginning he said that he wanted to find out where the Tomlinsons came from, so I was expecting them to go back further into his family history to search for the origns of the surname, or where the first Tomlinson in his line originated, so I was slightly disappointed that they did not ...

All labourers worked hard back then and I'm not sure if Carters were any worse off than other labourers. I did not get the impression, as some others did, that he thought that this was exceptional to his family.

An occupation that has not been covered before on WDYTYA - so it made a change.

PS. BTW, I think the long hair suits him. 

If I understand this, then the use of "Protestant" in this programme was incorrect?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism

[Gillg]

I have heard the Church of England described by a vicar as "Reformed Catholic", but of course when we think of all the diverse non-Roman Catholic churches we need an umbrella description, so "Protestant" is a convenient term to use. 

[gaffy]

In the mid 1970s I was at a comedy in a Belfast theatre in which the following dialogue occurred (I'm drawing from memory, but it's close enough):

"Are you a Catholic or Protestant?"
"Well actually, I'm Jewish"
"But are you a Catholic or Protestant Jew?"

The point was well made and very much of the time and place.

[Gillg]

My brother apparently came home from an isolation hospital (it was the 1940s and he had had scarlet fever) saying, "Mummy, am I a Proddy Dog?"  He had met a Roman Catholic boy for the first time and remained friends with him until he married and moved away.  My parents attended a Baptist church.  This was Lancashire, where as already mentioned there were many Catholics at the time of Queen Mary, Elizabeth 1 and other later monarchs, who were subjected to persecution_ long before the Irish  immigrants arrived.