Griffin ancestry in the Leigh-with-Bransford / Suckley area

[pimpernel]

I previously raised this on the handwriting forum, but as the thread moved away from handwriting am reposting here, I hope someone can help.

I'm trying to overcome a brick wall in researching my Griffin family.

Thomas Griffin married Rebecca Wood on 11th Nov 1845 at St. Martin's Parish church in Worcester (Vol 18 732). Later censuses after the family moved to Birmingham claim Thomas was born in Great Malvern (1851), Lye (1861), Malvern (1871), and Worcester (1881), however the marriage certificate indicates him working as a servant in Clevedon, Somerset. He worked as a servant in later records too, so I'm guessing he travelled to Somerset in service, and came running back to Worcester to marry Rebecca.

Thomas age 24: son of Thomas Griffin, Cordwainer. Residence: Clevedon, Somerset. Rebecca aged 27: daughter of William Wood, Miller. Residence: Mealcheapen Street (Worcester)
The witnesses are John and Eliza Pressdee, Rebecca's maternal uncle and cousin.

It seems Rebecca was already pregnant with their first child Ann when they married, for she gave birth around the time of, or soon after the marriage (Dec 1845 qtr Worcester 18 495). Daughter Ann was christened on 12 July 1846 in St. Martin's, Worcester.

Census estimates of Thomas's birth vary greatly: circa 1824 (1851 and 1861 census), 1827 (1871 census), and 1825 (1881 census). The marriage certificate suggests 1821. The only matching entry I've found for Thomas's birth on LDS is a 20th Nov 1822 christening in Leigh with Bransford, though I've not found it listed elsewhere. ( England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975  Indexing Project (Batch) Number C04870-1  System Origin    England-ODM GS Film number 350870, 350871)
(I used to have a copy of the Leigh parish records on disc, but no longer - this entry was not on the disc I remember.)

On this christening record the mother is stated as Maria, no father listed. The marriage record confirms his father as Thomas, though I've not found any record matching an elder Thomas and Maria as a couple, or any clearly matching entry for either in the censuses etc.

His wife Rebecca's father was a miller and came from the Alfrick/Suckley area, but traded in Worcester. In 1841 Rebecca Wood is shown working as a servant at Boughton Fields (present day Worcester Golf & Country Club) in Leigh with Bransford. There are no signs of either Thomas or his father Thomas Griffin in Worcestershire in the 1841 census, though I notice a possible listing for a Thomas with a Thomas son living in Bath, Somerset. There the Griffin trail ends!

If the birth and marriage records are accurate then his father was Thomas and mother Maria, but I've not found any marriage or other evidence to match.

I looked over all the records for Griffins in the area around Leigh, Bransford, Suckley and Alfrick, there seem to be scatterings of random baptisms and marriages that don't seem to correspond to any other records, suggesting there are missing records.

I'm confident Thomas's father was Thomas, somewhat less sure about the LDS christening listing his mother as Maria. Any help confirming the identity of Thomas's parents, the date of his birth/baptism,  and where he was born is very greatly received!

Many thanks

[trish1120]

Have you researched this Thomas?

1851 Census
Aston, Warwickshire
HO107/2061/233/10
Thomas Griffin, 50, Head, Mar, Shoe Maker, born Astley, Worcestershire
Sarah Griffin, 49, Wife, born Wkshire, Arley
Aistopher Griffin, 25, born Stourport, Worcestershire
July Griffin, 23
Frederick Griffin, 18
Louisa Griffin, 17
Mary Ann Griffin, 13
Emma Griffin, 11
All Children except Christopher born Birmingham, Warwickshire

1841 in Warwickshire;
Thomas Griffin, 40
Sarah Griffin, 30
Christopher Griffin, 15
Julianna Griffin, 14
Frederick Griffin, 9
Louisa Griffin, 6
Mary Griffin, 4
Emma Griffin, 2

Trish

[pimpernel]

Many thanks Trish

As far as I know there's no connection from my Griffins with Warwickshire, at least with these two generations. The Thomas you've highlighted 'could' be the elder Thomas mentioned in the marriage record, but I've no evidence to suggest he married a Sarah or came from Warwickshire. The younger Thomas and Rebecca moved to Birmingham shortly after their 1845 marriage, I've traced all the census records listing them there, but I've no records of any other Griffins from that generation mentioned in Birmingham, if there were siblings sure some connection would be suggested?

The lack of other Griffins in Worcestershire with Thomas and Maria parents suggests to me perhaps Maria died young, maybe the younger Thomas was their only child? Father Thomas may well have re-married afterwards, perhaps, but as always it's unclear without evidence.

[clalouha]

Hi
I have found an entry for a christning on LDS for a Thomas Griffin 11th Nov 1821, Old Swinford, Worcester, Father Thomas Griffin and mother Maria.
If you look up Old swinford on Wikki you get this:
Originally, it was an extensive ancient parish, covering the whole of the former Municipal Borough of Stourbridge, except Pedmore. This included Wollaston, Lye, and Norton (which were part of the same manor), but Stourbridge and Amblecote, while in the parish, were separate manors.
Could be a total long shot as I would have thought the same as you that Thomas came from Leigh in Worcestershire ( as in Bransford/Leigh Sinton area) but maybe it was actually more Stourbridge way? and was as spelt in the 1861C? Lye?

Am planning a visit to the Hive this week, can try and look for some answers there for you?
Claire

[pimpernel]

Thanks Claire!

I'm wondering if this might just be a case that all the data is there, but I'm just not seeing it! The Old Swinford entry is interesting, I considered whether my Thomas could be from Lye as opposed to Leigh, the 1861 census (family at 1 Arthur Terrace (Friston Street), Ladywood, Birmingham) states Lye as his place of birth. However other censuses (1851, 1871, 1881) point to Great Malvern or Worcester, so I've assumed the Lye refered to is Leigh Sinton or Leigh-with-Bransford. Wife Rebecca clearly was from around there. I've not found any other reference that suggests connection to the Lye in Old Swinford.

There is another Thomas Griffin birth on the LDS listed 1824 in Kidderminster, but that individual is clearly seen in later censuses, so a different family. The frustrating thing is, there are a number of Thomas Griffins of the correct age claiming to be born roughly in the area listed in the 1851 census, there seem to be more individuals than are reflected in the LDS birth indexes, so either some people got their birthplaces wrong, or some birth/baptism entries must be missing.

Of course, I'm not 100% sure Thomas's mother was Maria anyway, it's just the most likely looking birth entry for the few listed on LDS.

[pimpernel]

Thank you too for your very kind offer to do a look up for me at the Hive, that's very good of you!! I think the burning question is - are there other records there that are not listed on the LDS site?

I've an Ancestry subscription too, but only the basic package so I can't see all the BMD entries listed there.

[clalouha]

Hi
OK so I looked through the microfilm for Leigh with Bransford and the only Thomas Griffin born is the one baptised 20th Nov 1822 where he is listed as Thomas Griffin (Bastard son of) Maria Griffin Abode-Leigh A single woman.
There are no other Thomas Griffin's born anytime in the 1820's (not at Leigh and Branford) I also had a look to see if there was a marriage entry a bit later for Maria but if she married it wasn't at Leigh church!
Otherwise I did find
Class: HO107; Piece: 1195; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Coston Hackett; County: Worcestershire; Enumeration District: 10; Folio: 3; Page: 2; Line: 5; GSU roll: 464206
Is actually Cofton Hackett
1841 census
Listed as Thos. Griffin aged 20 shoe maker J born this county Y
living with
James Gardenhire   65    1776    Male       Worcestershire    England
Mary    Gardenhire    65    1776    Female    Worcestershire    England
Benjamin    Gardenhire 35    1806    Male       Worcestershire    England
John    Gardenhire    30    1811    Male       Worcestershire    England
George Gardenhire    12    1829    Male       Worcestershire    England
James Gardenhire    10    1831    Male       Worcestershire    England
George Edwards    15    1826    Male       not born this county
James is a shoe maker and his sons Benjamin, John and George are all Shoe maker Journeymen, so is George Edwards.
Journeyman: a craftsman or trader who has not become a Master, but has completed their apprenticeship. Usually employed by a Master. a journeyman was hired on a daily basis. The term may be suffixed by the name of the occupation they worked in.
I think this is probably him, born right county and started off apprenticing in his fathers Trade which is the only other thing that you know for sure about his dad, that would make the family suggested by Trish kind of fit as is Thomas Griffin who is a shoe maker (cordwainer) plus the Thomas Griffin  Trish suggested although in Warks now was born in Worcestershire.
The only problem being is I can't find a Thomas Griffin being born to a Sarah of correct age.
Sorry not to have been much help, probably muddied the waters even more!

Claire

[pimpernel]

Many thanks Claire!

For the 1822 birth record I suspected perhaps Maria was unmarried, I'm glad that has been confirmed! Clearly, if this birth is my Thomas then the father came forward, as a senior Thomas is listed on his marriage certificate.

The household you mention in Cofton Hackett is a really interesting hypothesis, however you'll forgive me if I'm a bit cautious. Cofton Hackett is the other side of Worcester and quite a distance from the Leigh/Suckley/Malvern region. Of course there's always a lot of assumption involved when we look at records, but other than the similarity in age, there doesn't seem much else to connect this Thomas with my ancestor. I know his father Thomas is listed as a cordwainer in his marriage record, but all records point to my Thomas being a servant. If he started out as a shoemaker's assistant, why would he not train with his father? And why is there no senior Thomas Griffin listed in the region in the 1841 census for Worcestershire?

As Thomas is listed as living in Clevedon, Somerset in his 1845 marriage certificate it's possible he may have been travelling as a servant before that date too, so he may well have been out of Worcestershire at the time of the 1841 census. I wonder if his father may also have travelled too? I've not found clear indications of either, nor his mother. There is so little detail in the 1841 it's difficult to be clear, there might be a few possible candidates outside Worcestershire, but I've not found anything with any surety.

John