Missing parents of William Charles Elen (1880 - 1923)

[Olicana]

In the 1881 census, William Charles Stephens is 8 months old and living with Rosina's brother Charles David and his wife, listed as their nephew. Rosina is listed as William Charles Elen's mother in his WWI Army Pension Records, but I thought she might just have been his next of kin, particularly since the boy listed as William E Sloper living with Rosina and Christopher Sloper in 1891 initially seemed to be born just a few months after their marriage. However, they do now appear to be the same person.

The baptism found by avm228 on 5 Dec 1880 is that of Mary Selina Elen, the daughter of Rosina's brother, William Bennett Elen. The other baptism of William Charles Stephens gives an address of 67 Milton Street - the 1881 census address of Rosina's aforementioned brother, Charles David, so there can be no doubt that the mother, Rose, must be Rosina.

Presumably the father is William Forty, so why does the baby have the surname Stephens?

[avm228]

The father was presumably William Forty Stephens.  The format of the baptism register shows the family surname and, in a separate column, the given names of the parents.

[avm228]

The 1881 census shows two more children predating Rosina's marriage to Charles Sloper:

Amy b abt 1876 (Amy Rosina Elen, Mar qtr 1874 Kensington)
Alice b abt 1878 (Alice Marion Elen, Mar qtr 1878 St Geo Han Sq)

These girls were baptised together, albeit with different surnames and addresses!

St Peter's, Eaton Square

14 April 1878

Amy Rosina, born 25 Dec 1873, d/o Rosina ELEN, of 25 Sussex St.
Alice Marion, born 17 Dec 1877, d/o William FORTY (ship chandler) & Rosina, of Tredegar Square, Bow.

[avm228]

Back to square one, therefore, as to whether the natural father of Alice Marion and William Charles was really William FORTY or William Forty STEPHENS.

[Olicana]

Yes, it's all very odd. Thank you for all the information though!

It seems William Forty was around for a few years then, so it is strange that Rosina married a different man within 3 weeks of William Charles' baptism, and even more strange that a 23 year old would want to marry her with 3 young children!

A further puzzle is that a marriage was registered in the second quarter of 1871 at St George Hanover Square, London between Rosina Elen and Camillo Giromini. Could this be the same Rosina, before Amy and Alice were born, possibly Amy's father?

[avm228]

Do you know that she married Camillo Giromini rather than the other bridegroom on the page, Samuel Goddard?

The marriages on that page took place in the district of St George Hanover Square, but not in a C of E parish church or in the register office.  The reference details suggest they may have been nonconformist (e.g. Catholic) marriages.

Camillo is likely to be the Camilius Geromini, 18 b Carrara, Italy, who was boarding at 7 Trinity Terrace, Westminster in the 1871 census.  Occupation was clerk, mantle trade.

I recall that Rosina claimed to be a spinster when she married Christopher in 1880

[Olicana]

Yes, Rosina did claim to be a spinster when she married - but she also claimed to be 24 when she was really 28! 

The Giromini marriage was registered in the same parish (St George Hanover Square) as William Charles' birth. It seems quite a coincidence that two Rosina Elens were living in the same area.....though not impossible. 'Our' Rosina would have been 18 at the time of that marriage so would have needed parents' permission I presume. I wonder if she lied about her age and married in secret, then thinking no one would find out about a Catholic marriage, became a bigamist!!

[avm228]

Registered in the same district, rather than parish.  The St George Hanover Square civil registration district covered much more than the parish of the same name.

I agree that the 1871 marriage may well be the same Rosina in a short-lived youthful adventure.  But how have you identified that she married Camillo G, rather than Samuel Goddard who shares the same reference? The other bride on the page was Charlotte Jefford.

[Olicana]

I saw this marriage some while ago, and if I remember correctly I tried various permutations and found that Samuel Goddard was married to Charlotte Jefford, so by default Camillo must have married Rosina