Help with baptism or birth certificate

[Elaine Wareham]

Am helping a friend with her research and am looking for some advice with South African records.  
From the 1911 census,
Frances Smith b 1874 Kilburn and two children Constance and Edith are living in 15 Kingsbury Street, Brighton.
Constance born 1905 Uitenhage, South Africa
Edith born 1906 Uitenhage, South Africa
RG14; Piece: 5131; Schedule Number: 225

It's somewhat complicated but we believe the father of the two children is Henry Arthur Smith born 1870 and the mother of the two children may be Frances (as shown in the census) or her sister Mary Ann (nee Lewiston).   
  
Henry's occupation has been recorded as a Tailor (on his marriage to Mary Ann Lewiston) and as a Painter (on the marriage of David Lewiston who we think may be Mary Ann's son).

I have looked for military records for a Henry Arthur Smith in South Africa but because of the common name it's like looking for a needle in a haystack! 

Can anyone see a baptism for the two girls or can advise on how to obtain a copy of their birth certificate.   

Thanks.

[Milliepede]

Have you got Frances in 1901 - is she in England?

Was she also Frances Lewiston? 

Marriage Dec 1903 Marylebone
Frances Lewiston
Thomas Chapman
Robert Pilbro
Emily Louisa A Goggin

Frances Smith says married 7 years but no groom Smith as we can see (if that Frances is her)

[Milliepede]

If both sisters married in London - have you got either of them travelling out to S Africa?

One of them must have been there to have the children.

[Milliepede]

Oh right yes I am seeing how complicated it is!

Frances marries Robert Pilbro then marries Henry A Smith in 1926 as Frances C Pilbro is that correct?

Maybe not as Robert and Frances are together in 1911 

[Elaine Wareham]

We have the marriage of Frances Lewiston to Robert Pilbro and a somewhat messy 1911 census for them both.
Class: RG14; Piece: 161
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911England&indiv=try&h=979478

We feel this could be a false declaration by Robert, saying that his wife was living with him - as we believe the Frances Smith we found in the 1911 census with children Constance and Ellen is the same person.  

Our thinking is that Henry, although married to Mary Ann Lewiston, at some point coupled up with her sister Frances - something we are trying to prove.

There is a possible death for Robert Pilbro in 1925, and a marriage for Frances Pilbro and Henry A Smith in 1926.   

Awaiting certificates to confirm some of these facts.  

There is no record of Henry Arthur Smith, his wife Mary Ann or sister/partner Frances going out to South Africa - or indeed any of them returning to UK - or at least none that we can find.     Henry Arthur Smith and wife Mary Ann (Lewiston) seem to be back in the UK by 1907 when they were witnesses to the marriage of David Ignatius Smith (born as David Lewiston).   

Trying to find either baptism or birth certificate for the two chldren, Constance and Edith, in order to find out their true parentage.   

[Elaine Wareham]

Sorry, cross posted there!   

[Milliepede]

Yes I wondered that too if Robert put that Frances was with him when in fact she wasn't.

Interesting she married Henry Smith the year after Robert died.  Glad you are getting some certificates as it's an intriguing case. 

I wondered if the children were adopted from S Africa and nobody went out to birth them but they are down as daughters not adopted ones.

As you say without their birth information is difficult to speculate.  If they were born there they must have travelled here with someone! 

[Milliepede]

Did the two girls stay in England do you know? 

Wondering if they married here and what information the marriages might yield.

[Elaine Wareham]

We have the marriage for Constance - to Sydney William Cook. 
Friend is waiting for the marriage certificate to arrive in Australia - ordered over 4 weeks ago - although she is fairly certain of the facts.