Traditional Irish Naming Patterns- Why No Sticky Thread ?

[kob3203]

I've been generally aware of traditional Irish RC naming patterns, but I recently tried to track down the details. Although I haven't found any original source for the information, just statements (without references) on various genealogy websites, they all seem to concur, more or less.

The convention for the first four children of each sex seems consistent, but there seem to be two options for the fifth child, and after that I guess it depends on which option 5 was taken ?

Son 1 - paternal grandfather
Son 2 - maternalgrandfather
Son 3 - father
Son 4 - eldest uncle (paternal)
Son 5 - second eldest uncle (paternal) / eldest uncle (maternal)
Son 6 - third eldest uncle (paternal) / ?
Son 7 - fourth eldest uncle (paternal) / ?
...etc...

Daughter 1 - maternal grandmother
Daughter 2 - paternal grandmother
Daughter 3 - mother
Daughter 4 - eldest aunt (maternal)
Daughter 5 - second eldest aunt (maternal) / eldest aunt (paternal)
Daughter 6 - third eldest aunt (maternal) / ?
Daughter 7 - fourth eldest aunt (maternal) / ?
...etc...

A few of the websites thaT gave me this:
http://www.ancestralfindings.com/irish-naming-patterns-discover-irish-origins-names-family/
http://www.irishgenealogy.com/ireland/names.htm
http://www.cotyroneireland.com/guide/NamePaterns.html

I also found these interesting additional tidbits:
- Second wife's oldest daughter named for the first wife ! ( http://www.ballyd.com/results/namingpatterns.htm and http://www.cotyroneireland.com/guide/NamePaterns.html )
- If a child died young the next child of that sex would be given that name (  http://www.cotyroneireland.com/guide/NamePaterns.html )

Of course, not all families followed the conventions, and even in families that did there'd be occasional deviations.

[Polly Lynn]

Dear Kob,

Interesting topic, traditional Irish naming patterns.  Here in the States my friend and colleague who was a genealogist told me about the Irish naming tradition.  What he told me has worked.  He told m that Protestants and Catholics alike followed this pattern:

1.  eldest son was named for its paternal grandfather
2.  second son was named for its father (unless the father had been name for his father)
3.  third son was named for its father's eldest brother (unless the father was the eldest son)
4.  fourth and fifth sons were named for father's favorite brothers

Also if a son died, he was replaced.  For example if he first baby Valentine died, he was replaced the next time a son was born. 

In this way, sons are named for the father's family only.  Daughters are named for the other's family only.  The sons were not typically named for the mothers' family, unless her family gave lots of money or land or jobs to the married couple. 

The above naming pattern has worked for me on my Irish Presbyterian family in Ireland through the early 1900s and in New York state through the first generation.

[clayton bradley]

My husband's maternal grandfather was named Joseph Sheehan, born England. His father was John Sheehan born Ireland. On the marriage certificate John stated his father was Michael Sheehan. John Sheehan had 7 sons. Not one was named Michael, cb

[aghadowey]

These three posts show that there is no one 'traditional' naming pattern.

The one most common in Ulster amongst Presbyterians seems to be-
1st son (daughter)- father's father (mother's mother)
2nd son (daughter)- mother's father (father's mother)
3rd son (daughter)- father (mother)
4th son sometimes paternal grandfather's father, etc.

Not all families followed any pattern but even amongst those that did quite a few events could have changed order of naming. A few examples-
- both grandfathers, and perhaps even father, all have same first name
- death of close relative shortly before birth of child
- first daughter of a couple named after father's first wife
- family disagreements
- son being given family surname (mother's or grandmother's maiden name, etc.)

Usually naming patterns can only be confirmed when names of all grandparents, etc. are known.

In my grandfather's family-
1st son- father/grandfather's first name + paternal grandmother's maiden name
2nd son- mother's father's name (first + last)
3rd son- mother's brother
4th son- mother's sister's stepson from India + maiden name of mother's paternal grandmother
1st daughter- mother's oldest sister
2nd daughter- variations of names of both grandmothers
3rd daughter- mother's older sister + father's older sister
4th daughter- possibly a friend
5th daughter- possibly a friend
6th daughter- mother's younger sister

[kob3203]

Interesting - so despite all the references I found seeming to concur, it's not as straightforward as that.

So maybe there was also a regional aspect, as aghadowey may have hinted ?

I suppose naming patterns are really just supportive circumstantial evidence ?

And with differing naming patterns, then what happens when a couple whose families use different patterns get married ?

Definitely not as clear cut as my initial research suggested.