Allman - not in Diss?

[bugbear]

I have been researching someone who figures (in a small way) in local history; Harriet Shepherd (née Allman).

I have built an extensive tree (sketch attached), all in Diss (and all supported by citations from FreeReg and images from the familysearch norfolk PR site).

Surprisingly the deep stuff (pre 1770 is pretty comprehensive).

But I have a gap. The Susan Newson/Thomas Allman family. Susan is from Diss, they marry in Diss (1770), and have two children in Diss (Lydia, 1771, named after Susan's sister, and Susannah, 1773).

I would "like" my POI, Harriet Allman, born 1779, Diss (according to the 1851 census) to be a child of this couple.

But; I have no trace of Thomas or Susan Allman after 1773. No record of children other than Lydia and Susannah, no burials, no census.

I am starting to suspect that Thomas Allman was "not local" and that the couple went back to Thomas' stomping grounds.

But I can't find any evidence.

Can anyone help?

  BugBear

[Yorkslass]

Hello Bugbear,

I had a look at Thomas & Susannah's marriage bond, to see if it helped, but it just says they were both "of Diss" though does give Thomas' occupation as Cordwainer.

I looked at the Diss ADT's and wonder if you had considered the baptism of Harriet Ormond
by Thomas and Susannah - 19 April 1775
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01joh/

There are no other entries for Ormond, and the only other Thomas & Susannah baptising children in Diss around that time were couples named Sands and Woodward.

I know looking at Allman and Ormond, they are dissimilar, but when you say them aloud ....

Yorkslass

[bugbear]

Hello Bugbear,

I had a look at Thomas & Susannah's marriage bond, to see if it helped, but it just says they were both "of Diss" though does give Thomas' occupation as Cordwainer.

I looked at the Diss ADT's and wonder if you had considered the baptism of Harriet Ormond
by Thomas and Susannah - 19 April 1775
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01joh/

There are no other entries for Ormond, and the only other Thomas & Susannah baptising children in Diss around that time were couples named Sands and Woodward.

I know looking at Allman and Ormond, they are dissimilar, but when you say them aloud ....

Yorkslass

May I ask where/how you found the marriage bond?

The PR doesn't give an occupation;

middle, left hand page

It's interesting, since John Shepherd died as a shoemaker.

The ADT is certainly not a transcription glitch; the PR is the same, and quite clear.

  BugBear

[bugbear]

Here's Lydia's

and

Susannah's

PR's

 BugBear

[Yorkslass]

Family Search have the Marriage Bonds online.

Luckily, 1770 was one of the years with an "index" at the beginning, which showed Thomas Allman and the page he was on - otherwise it means searching through hundreds of pages!

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jon/

There are two pages.

Any views on the "Ormond" baptism?

Yorkslass

[bugbear]

I'm slightly worried by the Ormand suggestion; if there was continuity
of residence in both the couple and the vicar, I'd expect the spelling
to be more consistent.

Here are the 3 entries, collated/composited together.

And yet (of course) your point about "the only Thomas/Susannah" couple is also perfectly valid.

   BugBear

[Rena]

When I was young every village had its own local dialect.  I've not found your man but I do find the Norfolk doun website helpful for finding alternative spellings.  A quick look found a Priscilla with maiden name OLMON baptising her child yet a few years earlier in another village her surname was ALMAN.

For interest here's the link to the A-Z Surname Index:  http://www.genealogy.doun.org/transcriptions/surnames.php?letter=A

If the couple moved out of the area, have you considered the registrar could have changed the spelling to the more common surname of "Almond", which can be found up and down the east coast?

[Marmalady]

The first entry is in a different hand -- the T of Thomas is distinctly different -- plus the mother is given as "Susan" not "Susannah"

The second & third entries are possibly written by the same person, but even here there are differences -- Thomas abbreviated or written in full

Given the 6 yr gap between the two entries, differences in spelling the same name would not be uncommon at that time -- spellings of names were not really standardised untill the majority of the population were literate and could at least read & write their own name

[bugbear]

The first entry is in a different hand -- the T of Thomas is distinctly different -- plus the mother is given as "Susan" not "Susannah"

The second & third entries are possibly written by the same person, but even here there are differences -- Thomas abbreviated or written in full

Given the 6 yr gap between the two entries, differences in spelling the same name would not be uncommon at that time -- spellings of names were not really standardised untill the majority of the population were literate and could at least read & write their own name

Thanks for (all) that. I've grown used to name spellings not being standardised, especially amongst the illiterate, and from generation to generation.

But I thought/hoped that a particular cleric/verger/priest would be consistent, even if the next cleric/verger/priest might make a different decision for the same spoken name.

Apparently not. 

EDIT; definitely not:  A writer would often spell the same word in different ways in one document

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/palaeography/where_to_start.htm

 BugBear