Marriage found in index but no scan of original record?

[majm]

Hi there,

If you go to the following free to search site, you then have several options.   
https://familysearch.org/

If you select the option search (https://familysearch.org/search) you are taken to option to Research by location.   

If you then click on that part of the map that is the UK,  you get the option to select SCOTLAND. https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1986318?region=Scotland

At that option you can scroll down and select the option to 'Restrict Records by'  and click on 'film number'.    Enter the film number you found at Ancestry, and also (without entering any names of deceased people) click onto 'search for a life event'  and select marriage option.  At that option, enter KELSO and the years 1836 (to) 1836.

And you can then select SEARCH ............ the familysearch's search engine finds 94 marriages for Kelso in 1836.    Notice that the ONE you want is the only one that does NOT have an exact day/month noted. 

I am not much good with figuring out the admin flaws of why/why not when it is a family history matter outside of New South Wales, Australia but I think that there needs to be an inspection of the actual image on the film to see what is actually recorded that leads to the index entry you have found.

ADD
47 marriages in 1836 at Kelso are indexed from that film.  Wilson = Turnbull is only one without exact day.   I am sure the Scottish experts will know if that is significant.

JM

[JenNZL]

Thank you :-)

I have also emailed Scotland's People to see if they can shed any light on the matter. It is a bit odd that Isabella / James are the only ones without a specific date listed; I also wonder why of the 94-odd marriages listed in Kelso in 1836, Scotland's People only lists one (Elizabeth Tait / James Wilson).

Thanks again for all the advice, everyone :-)

Cheers,

Jen

[Rosinish]

Name: Isabella Turnbull
Gender: Female
Marriage date: 1836
Marriage place: Kelso, Roxburgh, Scotland
Spouse: James Wilson
FHL Film Number:   1067947

Then down the bottom in the sources:

Source Information
Ancestry.com. Scotland, Select Marriages, 1561-1910 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.
Original data: Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013.
Description
This collection includes marriage records from Scotland. Learn more...

Reading this it seems 'Fancestry' have their info. from IGI?

I believe a lot of records are not online (yet) on SP?

Possibly Non-Conformist?

Thank you :-)

I have also emailed Scotland's People to see if they can shed any light on the matter. It is a bit odd that Isabella / James are the only ones without a specific date listed; I also wonder why of the 94-odd marriages listed in Kelso in 1836, Scotland's People only lists one (Elizabeth Tait / James Wilson).

I have a feeling that SP will direct you to NRS (National Records of Scotland) who provide the info. for SP?

Although they are both Government Establishments, they are different depts.

I've located a marriage record for my G-G-G grandparents James Wilson and Isabella Turnbull on ancestry.com that states they were married in Kelso, Roxburghshire in 1836.

I'm fairly certain her parents were William Turnbull and Eleanor Robson, but I can't find any documentation to support this link.

A marriage from that era will doubtfully give you parents names as it's a rare thing, not saying impossible but the chances are if a name is given it would most likely be only the father's name?

Someone with more knowledge may know different?

Annie

[JenNZL]

A marriage from that era will doubtfully give you parents names as it's a rare thing, not saying impossible but the chances are if a name is given it would most likely be only the father's name?

Someone with more knowledge may know different?

Annie

Yeah....I rather feared that might be the case. She's a tough nut to crack, this Isabella. I have lots of other documentation that suggests very strongly that she's the daughter of William Turnbull and Eleanor Robson (living in Roxburghshire but birthplace on census records listed as Lairg, Sutherland; same as siblings (looks like the family went up as shepherds after the Highland clearances??);  naming patterns make sense; - but no birth, death, or marriage information other than this little bit of index.)

The little breadcrumb I'm most intrigued by is a photo, c. 1860s (I think) we have which is annotated on the back "The Laird of Bimmer-hill". Based on poll books there appears to be James and later Lancelot Robson listed as freeholders of Bimmer-hill, (I'm not sure if this particular Lancelot is the father of Eleanor, but it all lines up rather nicely :-) Maybe it's a red herring, but I wonder how likely it would be to have such an old photograph of a random, unrelated person?

Anyway....it's an intriguing little adventure, that's for sure :-)

Jx

[Rosinish]

Where do all other census records record her as being born?

It's not a place which could easily be misheard unless it's somewhere in Sunderland rather than Sutherland?

I think a reply from SP may answer some questions even if it means yet another email to NRS.

Annie

Added, Robson/Robinson & other variants (Northumberland name) are more likely to be found in Sunderland than Sutherland....Just a thought?

[JenNZL]

Where do all other census records record her as being born?

It's not a place which could easily be misheard unless it's somewhere in Sunderland rather than Sutherland?

I think a reply from SP may answer some questions even if it means yet another email to NRS.

Annie

The census records I have (ages are a bit wonky, but the kids add up) show her in:
 
1841: Where born: Scotland, out of county (they were living in Kelso, Roxburghshire at the time)
James Wilson   28
Isabella Wilson   27
Ellenor Wilson   4
Robert Wilson   1
1851: Where born: Sprouston, Roxburghshire (this one is the anomaly; Sprouston is where James was born. The children all add up though: the two that were listed in the 1841 census, plus three more and an extra "orphan".
James Wilson   36
Isabel Wilson   35
Ealanor B Wilson   12
Robert Wilson   10
Margaret Wilson   7
Mary Anne Wilson   5
William Wilson   2
Elisabeth Stewart   7
1861: "Where born" is listed as "NK"...I presume "not known" (again, children still at home add up)
James Wilson   50
Isabel Wilson   48
William J Wilson   12
Isabel Wilson   6
1871: Where born: Sutherlandshire, Parish NK (last remaining daughter still at home.)
James Welson   61
Isabella Welson   59
Isabella Welson   16

I've found William / Eleanor's other children, and reference in a number of undocumented sources to an Isabella being among their number. All the children were born up north (William himself was from Sprouston, and Eleanor from Northumberland); the ones on either side of Isabella's DOB were born in Sutherlandshire (including Mary Ann and William, who remained unmarried and lived with the parents as adults).

Maybe I'm filling in too many blanks...but my gut feeling is that it adds up.

J

[Rosinish]

Ok,

Does the occupation for James read the same on all census' & childrens births/marriages/deaths?

Annie

[JenNZL]

Ok,

Does the occupation for James read the same on all census' & childrens births/marriages/deaths?

Annie

Kind of, on the census records at least. All bar the first one:

1841 James is a labourer, living on Roxburgh St, Kelso
1851 James is an Ag Lab, living at Graden, Linton, Roxburghshire
1861 James is a Ploughman, living at Whitton, Morebattle, Roxburghshire
1871 James is an Ag Lab, living at Whitton, Morebattle, Roxburghshire


I will look into the BDM of the kids and check...

J

[solidrock]

These could be their children, the dates are right,

Helen Bonar Wilson.
Birth    
13 Nov 1837 Kelso, Roxburgh, Scotland

Robert Wilson.
Birth    
24 Dec 1839 Kelso, Roxburgh, Scotland


Margaret Wilson.
Birth    
18 Nov 1842 Kelso, Roxburgh, Scotland

Parents  James Wilson, Isabella Turnbull