catherine smith

[cathieee]

hi all again, this has been written of thomas dewsberry the father of kane charles dewsbury, dont know if this helps any

Thomas Dewsberry went to sea as a cabin boy at the age of eleven and eventually became captain of his ship. By thrift he was able to purchase a sugar plantation in Demerara, where he owned slaves. He lived in a large three storey house in what was later known as Toxteth Park, Liverpool, where attic rooms were used to store tax-free provisions, a privilege of being a sea captain. His wife Margaret was Irish and said to have red hair and a fiery temperament - quite the opposite of himself. His death in July 1826 left the family penniless. He drowned with one of his crew off the coast of Demerara when a boat in which they were travelling collided with a mooring rope and overturned. His body was never recovered.

[cathieee]

hi, sorry to still be harping on about this, but through looking at marriage info for robert brightman and catherine smith ( though no origional copies)i realized it said this

Name    Robert Brightman
Gender    Male
Marriage Date    1863
Marriage Place    St. Jude, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Father    Robert Brightman
Spouse    Catherine Smith
FHL Film Number    1545847
Reference ID    2:DRL5QB
Household Members    
Name    Age
Robert Brightman    
Robert Brightman    
George Smith    
Catherine Smith

surely if it says household members her father george smith must still be alive and living at the same address as catherine ??, so why s the catherine dansburu in 1951 and catherine brightman 1861 living with ann and kane charles, did normal working class people get divorced in those days ??
soooooo annoying, just going round in circles

[rosie99]

Not sure where you have copied that info from      If it is marriage details the transcript does not need to show 'household members' & 'name/age'

The marriage entry gives this
14 December 1863 -St Judes, West Derby
Robert Brightman-full age-bachelor-occ Mariner-abode West Derby street-father Robert Brightman-occ Mariner
Catherine Smith-Minor-Spinster-abode West Derby Street-father George Smith-occ Joiner
wit Thomas Sunners & Mary Ellen Huills(?)
After Banns

The fathers are not necessarily alive at this time, neither witnessed the marriage. Robert & Catherine would not have to declare if their fathers had died.

[cathieee]

hi the record that i copied n pasted the exact words from ancestry record

"Name    Robert Brightman
Gender    Male
Marriage Date    1863
Marriage Place    St. Jude, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Father    Robert Brightman
Spouse    Catherine Smith
FHL Film Number    1545847
Reference ID    2:DRL5QB
Household Members   
Name    Age
Robert Brightman   
Robert Brightman   
George Smith   
Catherine Smith"

right i see on the actual real record it does nt say household members, then why does the transcript say that, is confusing, i just cant comprehend why catherine would call herself smith and say her dad was george smith a joiner if she was brought up by kane charles dewsbury from before the age of 7,how would she have even known what job he did, surely theres no shame in having a stepdad because your real dad died ??

i have got quite a bit of info on the dewsbury family but really its not worth going into really as they re probs not blood relatives ??

[heatherjulie]

Catherine Smith births registered in Liverpool with mother's maiden name
1841 Bambrick
1841 Jones
1841 no mother's maiden name given
1842 Moore
1842 Mercer registered in  Prescott
1842 Williams
1842 Woods
1842 Dooley
1843 Robinson
1844 Connor
1844 Wright
1844 Taylor
1845 Murray
1845 Boland

[cathieee]

thank for the list, are they with george smith as father ??, i hav nt seen that many, but i cant even find a marriage to kane charles dewsbury let alone a smith one for anne, i would know even if i was looking at it, i know she says born lancs on 1851 census and ireland on the 1861 census, so more confusion there, the neice on the census surname is o;roark ??, i ve been reading an old thread on here about legal age of marriage, but everyones saying different things, but if catherine was born in 1844 then she would have been  probs  19 as they married in december, but if she was a minor theres no mention of who gave their concent ??
thanks again

[suzard]

I know we are going round in circles but to me it looks a strong possiblity that Ann married to Kane Charles Dewsbury is most probably the mother of Catherine Smith

She was b co Meath Ireland c.1818

coud it be possible she married George Smith (occ Joiner) in Ireland and then moved to Liverpool where she had Catherine??
It may be worth looking for a George Smith marrying Ann???
Another possibility is that Catherine was illegitimate and her Grandfather was named George (sometimes a name is given for "respectability") or her father was George who was a joiner -but different name to Smith

George probably died - or disappeared if he was not married to Catherine's mother-or even if he was married to her!!!

Ann (supposedly Catherine's mother) then married Kane Charles Dewsbury -or at least lived with him as his wife???
Maybe if they did marry it was in Ireland??

If Catherine's mother had been married to George Smith we cannot look for the birth registration with mother's maiden name -as we don't know it!!

Also not all births were registered at the time Catherine was born so we have to rely on baptisms sometimes -and they didn't always take place when the child was young -sometimes not at all.

Also Ann (if she is Catherine's mother) would have been c 26 when Catherine was born -so it would be possible that she had other children?

Think we have to work through one thing at a time

Suz

[cathieee]

hi, im thinking out loud here, dont feel the need to answer, only maybe if i ve got something wrong lol

i have info on kane charles dewsbury

Name    Kane Charles Dewesberry
Baptism Date    15 Aug 1823
Search Photos    Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map    4846
Father    Thomas Dewesberry
Mother    Margaret Dewesberry
Register Type    Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number    Drl 2/283

death record

Name    Charles Dewsbury
Estimated Birth Year    abt 1822
Registration Year    1873
Registration Quarter    Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death    51
Registration district    West Derby
Parishes for this Registration District    West Derby
Inferred County    Lancashire
Volume    8b
Page    210

so i know he was born in liverpool and as far as i can tell he lived there all his life, i have him on the 1841,51,61 and 71 census

though i can find no marriage record for him and anne

i think his father thomas was born

Name    Thomas Duesburry
Gender    Male
Baptism Date    10 Dec 1783
Baptism Place    Christ Church, Tynemouth, Northumberland, England
Father    John Duesburry
Mother    Sarah
FHL Film Number    1068907

i have this info on him from someone on ancestry

    Thomas Dewsberry went to sea as a cabin boy at the age of eleven and eventually became captain of his ship. By thrift he was able to purchase a sugar plantation in Demerara, where he owned slaves. He lived in a large three storey house in what was later known as Toxteth Park, Liverpool, where attic rooms were used to store tax-free provisions, a privilege of being a sea captain. His wife Margaret was Irish and said to have red hair and a fiery temperament - quite the opposite of himself. His death in July 1826 left the family penniless. He drowned with one of his crew off the coast of Demerara when a boat in which they were travelling collided with a mooring rope and overturned. His body was never recovered.

i can find a birth for a catherine smith parents anne and samuel smith for 1/1/1843 would make her a minor on marriage 1863, and i can find a death for samuel smith 1850, but no reason as to why that should be him lol

leave this here for now