william smith of 9 cumberland row, lambeth surrey

[Peedee]

Trying to establish who William's parents were. Think he was born 1770, possibly st Botolph Bishopsgate Middlesex.  Parents could be Samuel and Margaret (Mead) Smith, or Benjamin William and Margaret (Mead) Smith

[Jomot]

William Smith is a very common name so can you please provide some additional information so we can pinpoint him & then try and work backwards - marriage, children, occupation?  When was he at 9 Cumberland Row?   

[Peedee]

I've been trying to gather more info for this search of William Smith Sr's. parents, thus my delay in responding. I have been trying to work backwards with out to much luck. There are no references to who his parents were in any records I have on William Sr, I call him senior as he had a son also named William, my 4x grt grandfather.  William Sr. was "a Citizen and Paviour", as well as a gardener.  There is a record of a William Smith receiving Freedom of the City Admission papers dated Feb 17, 1805 by paying towards a discharge, papers also dated 8th of April and 14th of May 1805.  He was "admitted into the freedom of this city by redemption by the company of Paviours"  There is a note  saying "Son of Wm. of Peckham, labourer"  The William receiving his freedom was called "William Smith Gent."  Whether this William is my Sr. William I have no proof other than when his son, young William, was admitted to Christ's Hospital (Blue Coat School) his father was listed as a Citizen and Paviour and Gardener.  What doesn't make sense is if he was a Gent, why did he have to put his son in a charity school?  One reason for my search is that there is a connection to Peter Pruden who was married to Margaret Fraser nee Smith.  Margaret was born 1756 and had a brother William born 1751, their parents were either Benjamin Smith and Margaret Mead or Samuel Smith and Margaret Mead.  I think it's more likely Samuel and Margaret.  There is a reference in the Hudson Bay Journals that when young William arrived at the HBC post in Rupert's Land (Canada), he was met by his relation Mr. Pruden.  If Margaret Pruden is young William's great Aunt, that's the connection.  Thank you so much for responding to my brick wall. Penny in Canada.

[Jomot]

So are you saying there were three Williams?  William in the Blue Coat School, whose father may be William the Paviour, whose father was William the labourer of Peckham House? 

Unfortunately it's still quite difficult to help as you still haven't provided many specifics.  In order to assist we need to know the same information that you know.

When was William in the Blue Coat School?  When & where was he born / baptised?  When & why does 9 Cumberland Row come into it?

There is a reference in the Hudson Bay Journals that when young William arrived at the HBC post in Rupert's Land (Canada), he was met by his relation Mr. Pruden.

When & how did he arrive in Canada, and who with, if anyone?  How old was he?

One reason for my search is that there is a connection to Peter Pruden who was married to Margaret Fraser nee Smith.  Margaret was born 1756 and had a brother William born 1751, their parents were either Benjamin Smith and Margaret Mead or Samuel Smith and Margaret Mead

Where has this information come from?  Where in England were Margaret & William Smith born?  When & where did Margaret marry a Mr Fraser and then Peter Pruden?

I understand now that you are trying to confirm the connection between Blue Coat William and Peter Pruden, whose wife was born Margaret Smith & may be William's Great Aunt, but we can't help unless we can locate them all in the records first.

[Peedee]

William Smith married Hannah Woodman 28, Sept. 1796, St. Mary's, Lambeth, Surrey. Had four sons: William 1797, Benjamin 1798, Joseph 1800, Thomas 1802.  Hannah died, "July 16, 1802, Cumberland Row." March 1805 William applies for son William to be admitted to Christ's Church Hospital (Blue Coat School) saying: "His wife died in 1802 leaving him with four young children and he finds it difficult to support the charges, their maintenance and education." William's occupation is listed as Citizen and Paviour, also Gardener. Young William entered the school in June 1805, and was, "discharged by his Father William Smith of no. 9, Cumberland Row, Kennington Green, Surrey, June 30th, 1812."  !813 young William entered the service of the Hudson Bay Company and sailed to York Factory on Hudson Bay. The York Factory journal states that on September 28th: " Smith a relation of Mr Pruden came ashore." (Later in life William tells his son Tom that he visited the Prudens on school holidays.)  William Sr, married widow Sarah Kieran, St. Mary's, Oct.1802. William had insurance with Sun Fire, "William Smith 9 Cumberland Row Kennington Green gent and Sir William East". (William East son of Gilbert East whose estate included Cumberland Row  houses which were leased out.) William's Will shows he is still at number 9.  It was written May 27th, 1834 and proved May 9th, 1836.  As far as there being three William, I found that on varies Family Trees at the Ancestry web site. Found them to be very confusing.  Thank you in advance for your interest in my cause.  Penny

[Jomot]

Hi Penny, and thanks for the extra information.

Unfortunately I still can't answer your specific query, but hopefully I can help with some of it.

Although Christ's Hospital School was a 'charity school', it's pupils were educated towards jobs in commerce or trade and were often from middle-class families who had fallen on (relative) hard times.  An earlier pupil was the poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who later wrote (in 1811) "the true and specific purpose of Christ's Hospital is.....to preserve, in the same rank of life in which they were born, the children of reputable persons of the middle class, who either by death or overwhelming calamities of their parents must otherwise have sunk to a state which to them would be penury and heart-breaking...... To preserve and not to disturb the graduations of society; to catch the falling, and not to lift up the standing from their natural and native rank...."

He also noted that two-thirds of admissions were children of freemen of the city.  To become a freeman you first had to be admitted to one of the livery companies, and so the chronology of the events of 1805 are not coincidental.

8 Apr 1805 - William Sr admitted to the Company of Paviours
14 May 1805 - William Sr presented to be admitted as a freeman of the city by redemption
Jun 1805 - William Jr enters Christ's Hospital School.

Becoming a freeman by redemption meant William Sr will have had to pay a fee to the city and probably also a separate payment to the person presenting him (W Chamberlain). 

As William Sr had remarried by then he perhaps was not being entirely truthful on the admissions form, but by having William Jr admitted to the school he ensured he received a good education and mercantile training, which then enabled him to join the Hudson Bay Company not long after leaving the school.   If Peter Pruden was already associated with them, then this may have been the plan from the outset.

The document admitting William Sr to the Company of Paviours notes his father as William Smith of Peckham, Labourer, but I'm afraid I haven't yet been able to identify him beyond that and so can't make any connection with Margaret.  Do you know when/where she married Mr Fraser - if she was born 1756 and was a widow by 1777 she cant have been married long?