Photo Dating Please/Analysis - Ellen Lockett, England

[Catherine86]

Hi!
I'm new here. What an amazing forum, I can't wait to have a good read of all the posts. I recently started doing some family research after finding a box of old photographs and birth/marriage certificates.
There is one photo in particular I'd like your help with if possible?

I'd love to know roughly when it would have been taken?

Also, any ideas of what age the lady could be? We know she married late on, so wondering if this child is hers or not? Would it be unusual for someone to pose with a niece/nephew, or would it only be done with their own child? Is there much resemblance between the two in your opinions?

Is there any particular reason for a photo like this to be taken? Would it have been sent to anyone in particular? or was it common practice?

Her father was born in Bermuda as we know her Grandfather was an army officer based there at the time, but we are unsure of her Grandmothers ethnicity. Does she appear to have darker skin?

I love this photo and I'd love to know as much as possible about Ellen and the child.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Catherine.

[maddys52]

What a lovely photo! I can only help by noting that divided back postcards started around 1902, so it must be after then. I think she looks late 20s early 30s, but I could well be wrong, and yes, she does appear to have darker skin. The child has very similar eyes.

[Ruskie]

What a wonderful photograph.

Without claiming to have any knowledge whatsoever, I will simply offer my thoughts ..

Have you traced Ellen's family history? She does have a darker skin tone and I expect you might find some interesting family history. My initial thought was that she looked like she may have some heritage from the Indian subcontinent, but her slightly protruding lower jaw, I see as a British trait.

I agree she looks to be aged late 20s early 30s. It was quite usual for photographs to be taken - sometimes for a special occassion, sometimes not, and in this case I can't see anything to suggest a special event.

I can't see any resemblance between her and the child but that does not mean it is not her child. Do you know when Ellen's children were born? Do you know anything about her husband? I think this child looks to have a different ethnicity from Ellen.

Also keep in mind that if the photograph was labelled years after then it may be labelled incorrectly.

If these are your ancestors a DNA test might give you some insight. 

[Ruskie]

Am I imagining things, or does the child's leg (or legs) look unusual? 

Appparently the Van Ralty Studios were listed in the Manchester trade directories from 1911 to 1933, so this gives you a bit of a time line. When did Ellen marry?

[maddys52]

I'm assuming this is Ellen in the 1881 (sorry - 1901) census at Ashworth St South Mancester:

John Toohey    40    West Indies
Mary Toohey    30    Newton Buckland, Dorsetshire
Alice Toohey    13    Bk Portsea, Anglesey
Ellen Toohey    13    Bk Portsea
Bernard Toohey    12    Bk Portsea

So Ellen was born around 1888? And married John Lockett at Prestwich Sept qtr 1917 (8d/617)

Modified to give the right census year 

[maddys52]

And there is a child born to the couple in 1918 registered at Prestwich (8d/572). I think the child in the photo looks about 2 or 3, so quite possibly this photo was 1920-21? Which would make Ellen around 32. 

Added: Others who are much more knowledgeable about clothing styles might be able to give a better idea of dates too.

[Ruskie]

That all fits nicely Maddy.

Ellen's father John born West Indies - Catherine said John's father was in the army. It looks like the mystery grandmother may be the link, which I think Catherine may have already surmised.

This reminds me of an episode of Who Do You Think You Are. 

The search for grandmother may benefit from a new thread (unsure which board) with a link to this one of course  Presumably locating John's birth certificate is the next best step?

[Ruskie]

John born St Georges? Bermuda in about 1861?

According to John's marriage certificate what was his father's name? Does he appear in any English census?

[maddys52]

I know this is getting off topic from dating the lovely photo, but Alice, Ellen and Bernard TOOHEY were all registered at Portsea with mother's maiden name JEANS.