N.P. Crayford Kent help please with baptism and marriage of Horatio James/Collin

[avm228]

Horatio's wife Mary was committed on the same charges, but acquitted (along with a David West).  Convicted along with Horatio were Thomas Turner and William Turner.

[Karenannie]

Hi AVM228
               Thank you for going to the trouble of looking for me,  I've got that information, except that the record wheres he's 19 apparently states he's from Oxford.. I don't have that record. I have everything on him once hes in Australia also. his baptism and 1st marriage and birth of his child Olive/Oliver that Id like to find, hopefully..

[Karenannie]

avmv228
re-"Horatio's wife Mary was committed on the same charges, but acquitted (along with a David West).  Convicted along with Horatio were Thomas Turner and William Turner."

I don't have any of that, so that's very interesting- I cant access the surrey assizes (if only they were accessible like the Old Bailey)
is there any mention of the child?
were that tried the same day as Horatio?

[avm228]

I haven't seen the "Oxford" document either.

Is he the same Horatio James who was acquitted of larceny in Surrey in 1824, and then convicted at Surrey (together with George James and William Baker) of housebreaking in 1825?  In the latter case the death sentences were commuted to 1 year's imprisonment with hard labour.

If this is him (this may be what is referred to in 1828 as "capitally convicted before"), then George James may be a clue to Horatio's birth family?

[avm228]

avmv228
re-"Horatio's wife Mary was committed on the same charges, but acquitted (along with a David West).  Convicted along with Horatio were Thomas Turner and William Turner."

I don't have any of that, so that's very interesting- I cant access the surrey assizes (if only they were accessible like the Old Bailey)
is there any mention of the child?
were that tried the same day as Horatio?

Mary appears in the relevant registers as Mary Collins alias James.  Her trial went ahead at the 1828 summer assizes at Guildford, but she was found not guilty.  I can't at the moment see anything more about her (including her age), or any mention of the child.

[StevieSteve]

Thank you all for your quick responses..

Stevie Steve- Horatios first son to Elizabeth was named Samuel so perhaps that might have been the theory behind that circumstantial evidence.

Yes, that was mentioned.

Looking at the tree again, there's something a bit more substantial in that there's a Missing Person's advert from a brother George - whose death certificate has father as Samuel Collins, mother's maiden name Batiwell?

[Karenannie]

Avm,  I don't know as I haven't seen the document you're referring to either previous conviction, although it is stated on his gaol report. His gaol report states that he was sentenced to Brixton. 

" Transported for housebreaking, Goal report- capitally convicted before, comment class Bad,
Hulk report "Orderly",  "Wife"Stated this offence  "Housebreaking,  once for housebreaking, sentence Death recorded. commuted to 12 months in Brixton.
Proper name Horatio JAMES, wife Mary James, of N.P.Crayford, Kent, and (one child, Oliver, with her.)with her father and M Thomas Smith."

and I have his hulk report..and then his reports once he arrived in Tasmania. I don't have any of his reports from the assizes, so what I'm reading from you is new information for me. which I'm very greatful for.

[Karenannie]

Stevie steve, that is pretty impressive. I've sat and delved through Trove, but I missed that..
That could be one very important piece of information..  Wow.!  Ive deifintiely got to look at that more closely.
AVM228 also mentioned a George could be linked  if its the same Horatio who'd been trialed in 1824..

[rosie99]

Horatio Collins
Age   19
Birth town   Oxford
Birth county Oxfordshire
Occupation Hawker
Year   -
Place   -
Entry number   3270
Series   ADM6
Piece number   422
Source   Description book of convicts in the hulk 'Ganymede', moored at Chatham, 1814-1831
Folio number   144

The copy is available to view on FindMyPast. There is no date on the document but it gives a description of him and it mentions 'Bees & beehives'.  The book from which the information is taken is stamped Public record office