Author Topic: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records  (Read 3791 times)

Offline jc26red

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 22 July 17 09:32 BST (UK) »
I am puzzled as to how you managed to jump from John Whiteside, a cordwainer living in Cockerham married to a "Betty" from Devon to John Whiteside who was a husbandman, from Poulton le Flyde?

Betty is often used as a shortened affectionate name for Elizabeth.

A cordwainer/shoemaker usually serves an  apprenticeship and doubtful John would have gone from husbandman to cordwainer.

Other than the 1841 census which places a John Whiteside, cordwainer, and a Betty Whiteside living with your Richard Whiteside and his family. Do you have proof, they are his parents and the same John that married Jane Rimmer? As you already state, there lots of Whiteside families in Lancashire.

Ps... the marriage in Plymouth between John Whiteside and Elizabeth Collins does say whether either are single or widowed.  On reflection having noted the later census returns, I now also believe Elizabeth Collins was born in Devon not Ireland.

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Offline jc26red

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 22 July 17 09:35 BST (UK) »
Southern Ireland was part of the United Kingdom at that time, so no dual nationality.
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Offline Sinann

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 22 July 17 10:14 BST (UK) »

Richard, my ancestor was born in Ireland in 1815 and Agnes in Cockerham in Lancashire in 1818 when they were both christened


If Richard wasn't christened in Ireland than there won't be any record for him in Ireland.

Offline jc26red

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 22 July 17 10:34 BST (UK) »
Burial:

3 Jan 1842 St Leonard the Less, Samlesbury, Lancashire, England
John Whiteside -
    Age: 65
    Abode: Samlesbury Mill
    Buried by: Fras. Law
    Register: Burials 1813 - 1861, Page 126, Entry 1008
    Source: LDS Film 1526061
    Distance = 15.53 miles
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Offline heywood

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 22 July 17 10:39 BST (UK) »
The family were living at Samlesbury Mill in 1841 - I mentioned the burial in reply 5.
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Offline jc26red

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 22 July 17 10:41 BST (UK) »
You did indeed
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Offline heywood

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 22 July 17 10:50 BST (UK) »
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 22 July 17 12:38 BST (UK) »
Sue, you said in your last post "St. Chad's, Poulton-le-Fylde .... where Agnes and Richard were baptised in 1818." Agnes and Richard were baptised at St. Michael's, Cockerham, 9th August 1818. Parents were John & Betty. Abode was Forton. Baptismal entry states that Richard was born in Dublin in June 1815. (Lancashire OPC.) Have you confused them with another John & Betty who had children Agnes & Richard? All were common Christian names in that part of Lancashire at the time. Elizabeth/Betty was one of the most common.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Tracing Irish ancestors beyond available records
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 22 July 17 15:19 BST (UK) »
Jenny Whiteside, born 1812, natural daughter of Betty Whiteside is most likely a red herring. There is nothing to suggest that she was in any way connected to any of the John Whitesides around at the time. Her mother, Betty Whiteside was probably a "Singlewoman", a spinster, and not the Betty who was married to a John Whiteside. Baptism entry simply records "Jenny Whiteside, natural daughter of Betty Whiteside, abode Carleton". The term "natural daughter" means that she was illegitimate. Therefore she was not the daughter of John Whiteside & wife Betty, or of any other married couple. They could have belonged to any of the Whiteside families in the area or none. Vicars and Poor Law officials usually knew what was going on in their parish or made it their business to find out. If, as you appear to suggest, that Jenny was the daughter of Betty, wife of John, fathered by another man while Betty's husband was away doing his duty for King & country, that fact would not have gone unrecorded. I came across a similar case around the same time in anther parish near Poulton. The baptism entry read something like " Edward Smith, son of Ann Smith and Peter Brown. Notes: Ann Smith's husband is away serving with the 40th Foot."  I researched illegitimate births of the era in that parish. Some single fathers were away in army or navy or worked as sailors or fishermen. Many married on their return. Some of course didn't survive. Others were just "passing through" and may never have come that way again, and may have been unaware that they'd fathered a child. The lists of baptisms I mentioned in a previous post, "Soldiers, Sailors & Strangers" is a snapshot of how things were at the time.
So my advice is to forget Jenny Whiteside, she just muddies the waters further. Jenny/Jane/Jennet was as common as Betty/Elizabeth.
Cowban