Author Topic: family history of travelling showmen  (Read 5432 times)

Offline davidqueneherve

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 09 September 17 01:18 BST (UK) »
Celtic Traveller - Background | Family Tree DNA
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CARLOMAN (Ref PAGE107; “Gypsies in Britain” Author Brian Vesey-FitzGerald, published late 1930s) .... CLUETT (Wolverhampton -Staffordshire 1861 Census)

DEATHS CARLOMAN—September 30. at her residence, 2, Rochester Street. Ravenhill Road, Belfast, Catherine, relict of the late Armond Carloman. Her remains will removed from above address, to-morrow (Thursday)
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Offline Sinann

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 09 September 17 01:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Wendy, I have found a newspaper account of Armond Carloman's burial in Belfast in 1898. If you haven't read this before please let me know and I'll transcribe it for you.
Would love to have this, I have some very conflicting information but do have a death of Armond in Ireland( Civil registration index). Our direct connection comes from daughter Angelina born in 1857 to Mary Jordan in Glasgow, but that would make Armond 11 years old! Seems unlikely that there were two Armonds both travelling showmen, but only other documentation we have found is 1881 census in Wales where he is married to Catherine

His death cert is online, number 201
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05833/4651769.pdf
Aged 50, owner of a shooting gallery, married.

Offline Sinann

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 09 September 17 01:30 BST (UK) »
Is this Catherine? number 372
Died 1902, wife of Armond Carloman contractor, widow aged 70.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05681/4601090.pdf

The address matches the notice, Rochester St.

Offline Sinann

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 09 September 17 01:34 BST (UK) »


Offline Sinann

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 09 September 17 01:40 BST (UK) »
There is also a death of a 2 year old Louisa in 1880 but the image of the cert isn't online yet.
I don't see a birth for her in Ireland.

Offline Sinann

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 09 September 17 01:55 BST (UK) »
Catherine left a will
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014912/005014912_00300.pdf
I think it should be available on one of the Northern Ireland sites but which one escapes me.

Offline Vimto

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 09 September 17 06:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Wendy, here is the published notice of death and account of Armond Carloman's funeral in Belfast in 1898. Very interesting. Check out the American circus owner.

The Era, 30 April 1898

CARLOMAN. – April 27th, at his residence 5, Concord-street, Belfast, Armond Carloman, horse ------ of nature at one time with Forepaugh’s Circus (American circuit).  Well known to all British showmen.  Inserted by his old pal Mr. W. Toft.

The Era, 7 May 1898

In the presence of a considerable number of his old friends, the remains of the late Mr. Armond Carloman were laid to rest on Friday morning, 29th ult., in Knock Burial Ground, near Belfast.  The attendance included Mr. W. Toft (who travelled specially from Dublin to be present), Mr. J. Turnbull, Mr. James Carter and Mr. Chas. Belbert (representing the profession the deceased formerly followed, viz., that of a showman), Master Frank Whitton (representing Mr. Leo Whitton, the Canadian giant), Mons. De Cone (conjuror), and Professor Ferguson (illusionist).  Several hundreds of Belfast’s citizens also followed the cortége through the city, and fully fifty of the deceased’s intimate acquaintances wended their way to the cemetery at Knock, which is situated at least three miles from Belfast.  An impressive service was rendered at deceased’s last residence, 5 Concord-street, Belfast, by the Rev. Mr Kernedy, who also officiated at the grave, the concluding scene being most affecting.  Mr. Carloman was well known to all English and American showmen and fulfilled a most lucrative engagement with the late Adam Forepaugh’s Circus in America, afterwards travelling with his own novelties throughout the whole of Great Britain and Ireland.

Offline Vimto

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 09 September 17 07:28 BST (UK) »
To try and summarise, I think this is what we know about Armond Carloman, his wives and children:

Unknown date – born, Paris, France
1863/4 – Birth of son, William Carloman, Wolverhampton
1866 – Birth of son, Armond Carloman, Blackburn
1867 – Birth of son, Henry Carloman, Wolverhampton
1868 – Birth of daughter, Christina/Christancia Carloman, Birmingham
1870 – Birth and death of son, Albert Edward Carloman, Bury
1875 – Death of 1st wife, Mary/Maria Jordan, Newcastle upon Tyne
1880 – Marriage to 2nd wife, Catherine Johnston, Nottingham
1881 – Census, resident in Trallwmgollen, Montgomeryshire
1898 – Death, Belfast

So, can a marriage be found for Armond Carloman (XXXX – 1898) and Mary/Maria Jordan (c. 1831-1875), most likely a short time before 1864?

Did Armond and Catherine have any children?

Offline davidqueneherve

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Re: family history of travelling showmen
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 09 September 17 07:35 BST (UK) »
Henry and William CARLOMAN in the 1911 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW7P-V3Z