Martin

[tonymaxfield]

Anyone able to help.
I know that my great great grandparents were Thomas (George) Martin and Cordelia Amelia West. I have found 6 children one of whom is definitely Frederick (Walter) Martin, my great grandfather.
I am struggling with how Thomas was in various bits of.evidence an actor, a harlequin, a pianoforte maker, a professor of music and a house painter. The evidence is fairly secure.
Secondly Cordelia and Thomas were in Bristol in the 1861 census, but they are both mentioned on the birth certificate of Thomas Walters Martin in Cardiff also in June 1861! Frederick gave his birthplace in as Bristol or Westminster on different censuses so he didn't know. Thomas is a piano teacher on one and a house painter on the other!
Thirdly in 1861 they have an 11 yo daughter Mary Ann possibly born in Bath, but in 1851 Cordelia was definitely with her parents in Sussex and I believe Thomas was in London!?
Lastly I cannot find Thomas in 1841 or 1871 and I believe he died in 1879, but I cannot be sure and I can't find Cordelia in 1871 although she reappears in 1881. One possible death for Thomas is in 1879 for a man who had been paralysed for several years in a workhouse. Could that explain anything?
Thomas Martin is a common enough name but I don't think Cordelia West is and not the two together.
Can anyone suggest anything? It seems so puzzling to me.

Thanks
Tony

[candrjm]

Possible birth reg for Mary Ann Martin:


MARTIN, MARY  ANN      Mother's maiden name WEST      
GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in WORTHING  Volume 02B  Page 264


 

[Cas (stallc)]

Possible birth reg for Mary Ann Martin:


MARTIN, MARY  ANN      Mother's maiden name WEST      
GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in WORTHING  Volume 02B  Page 264


 

This is likely the child of Thomas Martin & Emily West marriage 1846 Worthing there in 1851/61 census, so don't think yours.

Do you have the marriage for couple..can you list what census you know for sure are them. No dates of birth given. There are a few Thomas Martin /Cordelia couples on census.

Cas

[tonymaxfield]

No sorry finding a marriage is a problem. For Cordelia pretty sure of 1841, 1861, 1881, 1891, 1901.
For Thomas only 1851 and 61, but I have Frederick's birth, marriage certificate, Frederick's brother Thomas' birth and death certificate, Cordelia's death certificate all mentioning the right people.

[Cas (stallc)]

I am sure you know if likely correct, but asking for help with no DOB for people and no census details of family to help guide, it's a bit difficult to know what you know without guessing ages.

Not locating marriage and not locating the Thomas Walters birth in Cardiff 1861 you quote.

When was the first child born?

Cas

[tonymaxfield]

Sorry. Not sure how much detail is needed. Cordelia 1831-1909 b. East Grinstead, Thomas Martin 1832-1879? b. London, Frederick Walter Martin 1861-1947 b. Bristol / Cardiff. Children Thomas George 1859-1908 b. London, Mary Ann 1851-b. London, Jane 1855-1859 b. London, Harry West Martin 1871-1949b. London, Alice Ada 1874-.b. London. Have more detail if needed, please ask.

Thanks
Tony

[Daisypetal]

HI,

A possibility for Cordelia Amelia in 1871,

1871  RG10/129  f.107  p.59  St Margaret, London,  RD:  St George Hanover Square
Upp Tackbrook? St

MARTIN
Emma       Wife    Mar    36
Thomas    Son      11
Fredrick    Son       8

The page is ripped so no birthplaces are available, but the children's ages almost match and they are living in the same parish as in 1881.

Regards,
Daisy

[chempat]

You have put:

'Secondly Cordelia and Thomas were in Bristol in the 1861 census, but they are both mentioned on the birth certificate of Thomas Walters Martin in Cardiff also in June 1861!'

But we cannot see that birth.

Oh, and then you say Thomas George born London 1859 - yes, GRO shows that.

If he was an actor, then he could easily move around the country, similarly for other professions.  A professor of music can just mean a piano teacher - one of mine was a 'professor', briefly, before moving on.

[Daisypetal]

I think Tony might have made a typo and he means,

Frederick Walters MARTIN    Sep Q 1861    Cardiff    11a  215     
mmn: WEST