General question about fire destroyed records

[squatt]

Hello

I have been told several times about a lot of army records being destroyed by fire caused by bombing during the war.

I just read today there are 2 groups of records

Fire damaged ones which hare partial and fragile

Undamaged ones - these were described not as ones that we not touched by the bombing but ones that had been reconstructed from other documentation such as pensions and medals rolls etc.

This of course sounds common sense to me as basically the army is an employer and as such have a duty to ex service men and their families regarding all sorts of support like pensions etc

to do that they they would need to reconstruct the basic files

supposed the burnt files are WO363 and the Rebuilt Files are WO364.

Does any one have any more knowledge of this WO364 files.

its does seem a bit easy to say records are gone because of a fire, but the people the refer to quite often were not.

any thoughts comments

regards

[MaxD]

Not quite right.  There are records extant in both WO 363 and WO 364.

Best to let the National Archives explain it:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/service_records/sr_soldiers.htm

MaxD

[Gwil]

Here's a full list of WW1 related documents destroyed in the raid (with due apologies for repetition if it's contained in the link provided by Max)

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/the-1940-fire-at-arnside-street/

I draw attention to the final paragraph which says
" The documents states of that of the soldier’s army service records, “out of 6.5 million documents only 1.25 million have been saved”

I'm not sure how or why the Army would reconstruct 5+ million documents smack bang in the middle of a world war.

[John915]

Good afternoon,

I'm not sure how or why the Army would reconstruct 5+ million documents smack bang in the middle of a world war.

I believe the reconstruction took place post war by a some years.

John915

[squatt]

Thanks for the reply guys

i did not suggest when they maybe have reconstructed them, just a general discussion on how complete they may have been and home much of has been digitized.

My general query was answered i suppose with the statement about the pensions, i was unsure who would be entitled, everyone or just those who ended up sick or injured.

As for the burnt records it says only available on micro fiche? is that still correct do you think? as that means there could be a lot more information still to be accessed if you can visit the archives?

or are they saying the search index for these is complete online and you have to visit the archives to see the contents?

regards

[John915]

Good afternoon,

The burnt records are available only on micro fiche and always will be. As it says in MaxDs link, they are too delicate to be handled.

But what survives will be copied onto micro fiche in it's entirety, for the benefit of people like us..

John915

[squatt]

question is john915 how do i find out if my relatives are one of those records?

regards

[John915]

Good evening,

If they are on micro fiche then only a visit to TNA will get you a viewing of them. I don't think you can get them online.

An online visit first may tell you if they are available on microfiche or are not available at all. A percentage of the records were entirely lost.

You can also get medal index cards which will tell you a small amount. Medical records are also available I believe, so if he was wounded or ill then that would all have been recorded. Also pension records if awarded if he was entitled.

With luck someone will be along who can tell you exactly where to find them all.

John915

[MaxD]

John915 has essentially covered it  The practical application of his second sentence is to use the NA search facility, http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Leaving out any short cuts, entering James W Muir's name first brings up 320 records.  Limiting the dates to 1900-1924 and refining the search gives 261.  Now go to advanced search and enter WO in the bottom references box (WO gives army only results).  That gives 4 results only one of which is a Royal Engineer (and just happens to be your man) and it is his medal card.  Clicking on the title will give a page that says you can go to Kew and see it free, download it for £3.50 or find it on Ancestry (FindMyPast have only the transcrpiton) if you have a sub.  Now try WO 363 and WO 364 in the reference box, answer zilch.
If there had been a record burnt or unburnt for him, it would have been listed there.

Just to prove it, enter Arthur Heath and WO 363 and you will see his record has survived.  Clicking on the title shows you can see it on Findmypast and Ancestry (check "other ways") and view free at Kew.

Broadly speaking army records that survive are to be found at Kew and also on the two subscription "Partner" sites.  When I have advised that only James Muir's medal card exists, I have done that from checking those sources.

As john915 also hints, there are other records from which, with practice, one can get clues.  On Findmypast this link shows all the British Army records they have.  https://search.findmypast.co.uk/historical-records?SearchedRecordsetName=british+army&Region=united+kingdom&subcountry=&subcountryfieldname=
If you click on any of them and scroll down to "discover more about.." and "available record series" there is an explanation of where all the originals came from which in the vast majority of cases is the National Archives.

The process isn't totally straightforward but no research is.  If all else fails, do as you did earlier and post his name.  I, and I'm sure other who have posted here, will tell you if a record does or doesn't exist and will tell you if they aren't sure.

MaxD