Henry (James) Caldwell - Presbyterian Cemetery, Iroquois ON (Dundas County)

[GSMaxted]

Hello everyone! I'm new to rootschat and am searching for more info re. my gg grandparents who emigrated to Canada in 1852 - Henry James Caldwell and Margaret (Woods) - please see the following profile on wikitree - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Caldwell-5021

Any info re. this couple or their families would be of interest. We have not been able to go back any further and have read that the pastor in the church in which they were married at Clady, Ardstraw Parish, Co. Tyrone, Ireland insisted on having all records destroyed after his decease. But perhaps there are records elsewhere that we are not aware of. If so, I'd love to hear from you.

[aghadowey]

You haven't said where they bride and groom were living when they married- it might be possible to trace their family from valuation records (run from printed version of Griffith's Valuation until c1930)-
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/valuation-revision-books

In the middle of this comes the 1901 and 1911 census (also free online)- the 1st two complete ones for Ireland-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

All civil records survive, so you could look for records of relatives who stayed in Ireland- Strabane is probably the registration district for "Clady Hill"
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

I don't think you've mentioned exactly where the marriage of Henry and Margaret took place but if it was Church of Ireland then many of their registers sent to Dublin for safekeeping were destroyed in 1920s. According to PRONI catalogue of church records early COI ones were destroyed in Dublin (Ardstraw Parish on page 66)-
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide_to_church_records.pdf

[GSMaxted]

In reply, I would assume that Henry Caldwell & Margaret Woods were living in the area of Clady Hill as they were married at the Clady Presbyterian Church, Ardstraw Parish, County Tyrone, IRELAND on 23 Jan 1852. On their marriage certificate, Margaret's parents are listed as John Woods Sr. (1795 - 1873) and Matty Rodgers (abt 1795 - 1831). The Church where Henry and Margaret were married was located right next to the school in which he was Schoolmaster in Clady Hill. In fact, that is possibly where he met his wife. I understand that Henry Caldwell also attended the University of Dublin and was accepted for entrance in Aug 1847 and the age of 20.

While Henry and Margaret emigrated to Canada in late 1852, three of Margaret's sisters emigrated to the US - Sarah (NYC), Katherine (PA) and Jane (NYC.) Margaret's daughter Elizabeth married Jane's son, William Colgan in 1880.

But in retrospect, it is Henry's parents and siblings about which we currently have no info, but perhaps as you say - the records were destroyed in Dublin. I will check the links you mention.
Thank you for your replies and any further info you are able to furnish.

[aghadowey]

Now that you've confirmed the name of the church where they were married in 1852 it's possible to check what records might survive and they do have baptisms and marriages from 1837 (see PRONI's church holdings from link posted previously). However, church marriage records usually do not list mothers' names (civil certificate certainly only list fathers). If bride's parents are listed in the marriage record they are groom's not also included?

The church records destroyed in Dublin were Church of Ireland registers, not Presbyterian ones.

Note: Clady Hill is in the townland of Clady Haliday.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/strabane-lower/ardstraw-strabane-lower-portion/clady-haliday/clady-hill/

Have you checked Griffith's Valuation to see if any Caldwells were in the area?

Since Henry was the local schoolmaster then it's possible he was from outside the area and met Margaret after he came to teach there. University of Dublin seems a strange choice and wonder if he wouldn't have been a bit over-qualified to teach in Clady.

[venelow]

Hi GS and aghadowey

I also wondered about the university admission as it was not necessary to attend university to be a schoolmaster. So I checked it out at:

https://www.tcd.ie/library/manuscripts/collections/genealogy.php

The entries are in Latin.
The Caldwell admitted in August 1847 was called Jacobus (James) and his father was called Robertus (Robert). James Caldwell was aet. 15 years in age  (i.e. in his 15th year but not yet 15) and his place of birth was the town of Dublin. So he was born about 1832/3. Depending on whether he turned 15 in 1847 or 1848.

His father was not a Farmer (Agricola) but something beginning with P that was hard to decipher. My handy Latin cheat sheet of occupations did not have anything that resembled the word.

So it looks like the student at Trinity was not your Henry son of William as per his marriage certificate. Unless you have the wrong marriage. Where was the information that he attended university found?

Venelow
Canada

[GSMaxted]

In response to suggestions re Henry (James) Caldwell at University of Dublin (Trinity College), you indicate that the Caldwell entered in 1847 was Jacobus, and his father's name was not William, as was our Henry Caldwell. So the info re his attending Trinity College was passed down by my grandfather William R. Caldwell, and previously from his father, William John. No paper work is currently available in possession to my knowledge at present, to indicate this. So I am not sure where that leaves us, without making another thorough search of the entry records of the College in the years 1845 through 1852. Henry was born in 1827, and left with his wife Margaret for Canada in 1852 after they were married at Clady Hill, Co. Tyrone.

Also, here in the US and Canada, there are websites that will enable one to search out a cemetery headstone to obtain further info. I refer to findagrave.com and canadianheadstones.com. Is there something similar in the UK - England, Scotland and Ireland?

[venelow]

Hi GSMaxted

Searching the indices to the entrance books is not onerous. From the link I gave in my message:

"The volumes in the series TCD MUN V 24 (TCD MUN V 24/1aa, 1a & 1-10) serve as indices to the MUN V 23 series as they are more-or-less alphabetical within each group of years, giving name, date of entry, name of College tutor and further observations."

TCD MUN V 24/3 and 24/4 cover the time period you are looking at.  In 24/3 pages 47 to 54 cover all he names beginning with C from 1840 to 1847. That's eight pages.  In 23/4 pages 45 - 48  cover 1848 to 1851. I have checked all these and there is only one Caldwell in the list, the previously mentioned Jacobus / James who entered in 1847.

If you wish to check the the full entry for Jacobus/James in the Matriculation Register refer to the second list in the link I gave, the TCD MUN V 23 Series. Go to 23/6 and find folio 5v on the left side of the window. Caldwell's entry is second from the bottom of the page. The entry continues across the page on the next folio 6r where you will find his father's name, occupation and abode.

These original records that TCD has put on line have also been produced in print form (one being Alumni Dublineses) so it is possible that who ever provided this information only saw a printed index and not the full information. It seems that even though Henry was not mentioned the name James has been linked to Henry's name.

My conclusion is that Henry did not go to Trinity College. Though he could have had local mentor who did go to Trinity and encouraged him in his studies. Stories get twisted over the years.

You will have to draw you own conclusions.

Sincerely
Venelow
Canada

[aghadowey]

Came across this topic looking for something else (as one does). Since it started new information has become available online including images for marriages on Irish Genealogy site.

In reply, I would assume that Henry Caldwell & Margaret Woods were living in the area of Clady Hill as they were married at the Clady Presbyterian Church, Ardstraw Parish, County Tyrone, IRELAND on 23 Jan 1852. On their marriage certificate, Margaret's parents are listed as John Woods Sr. (1795 - 1873) and Matty Rodgers (abt 1795 - 1831). The Church where Henry and Margaret were married was located right next to the school in which he was Schoolmaster in Clady Hill. In fact, that is possibly where he met his wife.

As is usual on Irish marriage registrations the mothers of bride and groom are NOT listed. Margaret Woods' residence listed as Sion (not Clady Hill). Both fathers were farmers & noted as living. Witnesses were William Caldwell (perhaps a relative) & James Anderson.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1852/09439/5419671.pdf

The next marriage in the register, a few weeks later, is for Sarah Woods (possible sister of Margaret Woods) to a William Fletcher. Her residence & father's details match the above marriage but again mother is NOT listed. Two Andersons are the witnesses here- perhaps connected to Woods family or they lived near church and often called as witnesses.

Clady Hill is the name of a sub-townland in the townland of Clady Haliday (in other words Clady Haliday is the actual townland but part of it known as Clady Hill)
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/strabane-lower/ardstraw-strabane-lower-portion/clady-haliday/clady-hill/