Author Topic: Horace Gordon Cox  (Read 5647 times)

Offline rosball

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,263
  • John Scott Henderson 1853 Scotland -1919 Vic
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 03 May 18 01:01 BST (UK) »
I can check some of the relevant indexes when next I am at NSW State Archives
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/child-youth-migration-the-20th-century

Unidentified card index to immigrants [11/23095-23100]
Appears to index immigrants under the age of 21 who probably arrived under the Dreadnought Trust Fund.
1921-1947

Card index to migrant passport clearances issued [11/23094]
Appears to be an index to immigrants brought out under the Dreadnought Trust Fund who returned to England. The index is incomplete (Abbott-Myson only).
1924-1940

Card index to immigrants under youth group schemes [11/23093.2]
Indexes youths assisted under the Big Brother Movement, The Dreadnought Trust Fund, the Salvation Army and the Church of England (Council of Empire Settlement).
c.1930-1946  (possibly too recent)

Card index to assisted immigrants [11/23045-23054, 11/23056-23065]   1919-1926

Card index to assisted immigrants [6/994-1000, 11/23066-23074]   1925-1939

Ros
Let's not tolerate bullying !
Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline bildeston

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 03 May 18 11:34 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your interest. He travelled out on the Oronsay on 9 January 1926. As far as I am aware he went freely and was supplied with a number of contact points for introductions. Even though he was at Yanco my understanding is that this was before it became a corrective establishment.

Regards

Andy Cox

Offline rosball

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,263
  • John Scott Henderson 1853 Scotland -1919 Vic
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 03 May 18 11:54 BST (UK) »
Yes before it became a corrective establishment, Yanco was used as a training place (as well as other state government farms) for boys from Britain who were selected to be given agricultural training for 3 months  and then employment elsewhere.   

Apparently the Otranto was substituted for the steamer Oronsay in Jan 1926. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43898837

The Dreadnought scheme (I know it sounds like boys who had problems at first glance for some reason but was NOT) was in fact a prestigious scheme to bring the better class of boys to Australia to satisfy a demand for more agricultural workers so they were carefully selected and given training at state government farms before being guaranteed employment elsewhere.

Ros
Let's not tolerate bullying !
Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 03 May 18 12:42 BST (UK) »
Yanco Boys Child Welfare - Reform home did not start until July 1928, so Horace would have been 'too old' for any placement there,  IF he had violated any NSW law.

JM

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.


Offline rosball

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,263
  • John Scott Henderson 1853 Scotland -1919 Vic
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 03 May 18 12:50 BST (UK) »
Yes indeed (as was stated previously).  But it was used as a training place for selected boys from Britain (as well as other state government farms). 

Ros
Let's not tolerate bullying !
Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 03 May 18 13:03 BST (UK) »
Yanco Boys Child Welfare - Reform home did not start until July 1928, so Horace would have been 'too old' for any placement there,  IF he had violated any NSW law.

JM


Yes indeed (as was stated previously).  But it was used as a training place for selected boys from Britain (as well as other state government farms). 

Ros

I have not seen any previous reference to the date I noted.  Please note I am well aware of Yanco history and your own earlier post had already noted the selection process for Dreadnought scheme traineeships.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline rosball

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,263
  • John Scott Henderson 1853 Scotland -1919 Vic
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 03 May 18 13:06 BST (UK) »
Exactly  :)  This was prior to being used as a correction establishment.
Let's not tolerate bullying !
Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #16 on: Friday 04 May 18 01:37 BST (UK) »
Exactly  :)  This was prior to being used as a correction establishment.

Ros, I am quite sure that we all know that chronologically 1926 occurred before 1928.  I think you are again hectoring, perhaps to make out that I have not realised this.   

From Andy’s opening post  we all learn that Andy has Horace Gordon Cox as born London 30 June 1910, off to Australia 9 January 1926, and ‘he spent some time at the Yanco experimental farm in NSW leaving there about April 1926 – before it became a training farm for delinquent  boys.’


Your reply (#11) noted that before it was a training farm for delinquent boys, it had been a training farm for selected boys from Britain to receive 3 months farm training etc. and you mentioned the Dreadnought scheme was a prestigious scheme.

I then (#12) I posted the date that Yanco became a Child Welfare farm (July 1928) to confirm Andy’s info and to note that Horace would have been too old to have been at Yanco Boys Reform home.  (July 1928 minus June 1910 = 18 years, 0 months) May I further explain, so even IF Horace had violated any NSW law, he was, at 18 years, too old to be sentenced under any NSW Child Welfare Law.  My reply #12 does NOT contradict any information you had posted.

You then (#13) confirmed my post #12 and noted ‘as was stated previously’ HOWEVER, Ros,  I cannot find any post on this thread that gives the date (July 1928) or notes that by July 1928 that Horace was 18 years of age and therefore outside of the protection of the Child Welfare Act of 1923 (with amendments this Act operated until 1939).   Child is defined there as under eighteen years of age for Part IX.  https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/acts/1923-21.pdf   

You also mentioned at #13 ‘But it was used as a training place for selected boys from Britain….’ And so I replied at #14 that ‘I am well aware of Yanco history and I further noted that you had already noted the selection process for Dreadnought scheme traineeships. 

But you still persist and at #15 you continue to press a point as though I have somehow missed the obvious that prior to Yanco being a correction establishment it had been a training farm for a selection of British boys who came for three months farm training, with the expectation of further employment because of the farming skills they would have received from that training, and that such training was NOT provided as a some form of punishment to reform British Boys.

None of my posts on this thread give any person any reason to consider that I did not know that Yanco had been a training farm for lads from Britain prior to it becoming a Boys Reform home in 1928. 



Ros,  Please do re-read the OP’s opening post.  Clearly he had already appreciated that when his father was at Yanco (ie as a 15 year old, from arrival in Australia until April 1926, ) it was not an institution operated under any NSW Child Welfare scheme designed to reform delinquent NSW boys. 

Here is a link to NSW State Archives  re Yanco https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/agency/570  where the opening remarks under Administrative History include In 1928 the Yanco Experimental Farm, controlled by the Department of Agriculture was accepted by the Child Welfare Department as a site for a Training Farm for delinquent boys. On 4 July 1928, in pursuance of provisions of the Child Welfare Act (No. 21, 1923) the farm was proclaimed "an Industrial School for reception, detention and maintenance of children". The farm was known as "Riverina Welfare Farm for Boys, Yanco".

JM

ADD, and of course, before 1928, it was operated by the NSW Dept of Agriculture, and it was not just for boys sent out from Britain.
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline rosball

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,263
  • John Scott Henderson 1853 Scotland -1919 Vic
    • View Profile
Re: Horace Gordon Cox
« Reply #17 on: Friday 04 May 18 02:09 BST (UK) »
Exactly  :)  This was prior to being used as a correction establishment.

I was agreeing with you JM.
Let's not tolerate bullying !
Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland