Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[battista]

RE: Orsolina's marriage, that's also another certificate I ordered from GRO, specifically to find out if he was listed as deceased in 1905. And now you've just given me that information Very useful, I wonder if it was common to list your father as deceased (if they were actually deceased)?

You need to be careful over this!

There have been very many threads on Rootschat about this very subject, and many examples of people thinking the father was alive, simply because the word deceased didn't occur on a marriage certificate. I myself spent aged searching for my g-g-g-grandfather's death after his son's wedding, because the word 'deceased' didn't occur on the marriage certificate. I later discovered that in fact g-g-g grandfather had died some 20 years before his sons marriage.

The fact is that the question 'is your father still alive?' wasn't always asked. If not asked, the information might not have been offered.

So, please treat the absence of the word 'deceased' with great caution.

Also, bear in mind the possibility that he might appear as 'deceased' on the 1910 certificate because he'd vanished from the scene and the family simply assumed he was dead 

Yes, I figured that it's more of a clue than solid proof. I was hoping he was listed as deceased, that way it could potentially narrow the search down.

Yep, assumed dead same thing I suppose. Let's just hope that if he did die overseas, it was sometime during 1901-1910, otherwise, I fear I might never find a record.

[River Tyne Lass]

I did manage to get back to 3 January 1907 in the workhouse records during my search today and unless, I have missed something I can't see any Battista's admitted.  This may mean that they were long term residents. 

Potentially, they may have been admitted any time after the death of their Mother I suppose.  I can see from other records that when children seem to have been admitted information is given about their parents - so if an admittance record is found it may well record what the situation was for the Father of the child admitted.

Battista, although I think you are doing very well so far with this research - albeit Giovanni is still not located, I do wonder if this post might be better placed on the Northumberland board because this is where most of the Battista story seems to be taking place.

It was actually Jen, who alerted me to this very interesting post.  If not for Jen, I think I would have most likely missed this as I don't usually check the England General section - in fact I didn't even know before this post that there was a general section for England.  Just a thought.  You never know, perhaps other RootsChatters based in the Northumberland or Durham areas may know more.  Mind, I don't know how to transfer over to another board - but perhaps someone else may know - that is if you decide to switch boards.

I will resume this search at the workhouse in a week or two, as soon as I can.

[JenB]

You never know, perhaps other RootsChatters based in the Northumberland or Durham areas may know more.  Mind, I don't know how to transfer over to another board - but perhaps someone else may know - that is if you decide to switch boards.

I agree it might be better on the Northumberland Board.  I have asked a Moderator to consider moving it 

[battista]

I did manage to get back to 3 January 1907 in the workhouse records during my search today and unless, I have missed something I can't see any Battista's admitted.  This may mean that they were long term residents. 

Potentially, they may have been admitted any time after the death of their Mother I suppose.  I can see from other records that when children seem to have been admitted information is given about their parents - so if an admittance record is found it may well record what the situation was for the Father of the child admitted.

Battista, although I think you are doing very well so far with this research - albeit Giovanni is still not located, I do wonder if this post might be better placed on the Northumberland board because this is where most of the Battista story seems to be taking place.

It was actually Jen, who alerted me to this very interesting post.  If not for Jen, I think I would have most likely missed this as I don't usually check the England General section - in fact I didn't even know before this post that there was a general section for England.  Just a thought.  You never know, perhaps other RootsChatters based in the Northumberland or Durham areas may know more.  Mind, I don't know how to transfer over to another board - but perhaps someone else may know - that is if you decide to switch boards.

I will resume this search at the workhouse in a week or two, as soon as I can.

You never know, perhaps other RootsChatters based in the Northumberland or Durham areas may know more.  Mind, I don't know how to transfer over to another board - but perhaps someone else may know - that is if you decide to switch boards.

I agree it might be better on the Northumberland Board.  I have asked a Moderator to consider moving it 

Thank you RTL and Jen, I didn't know which one to put it in, so did the general. I would much prefer it to be in the Northumberland section if that's more visible.


Topic moved to Northumberland Board.

[River Tyne Lass]

I think it would be more 'visible' In getting help potentially on the Northumberland board.

I made a note this morning of the appearance of the Battistas in the photos.

John G Battista page 166 - well built (plumper than seen in the page 232 photo.  Cap.Dark hair, short fringe, fastened jacket, short and tie.
Page 232 Cap, dark hair, olive looking complexion, longer fringe, jacket, white scarf crossed over.

Lily alias Battista - dark hair, glum expression; broad brimmed hat with very fancy ribboning; jacket with scarf underneath.'

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi Battista,

I will be posting several records but not sure if I will have time to send all today.  I may have to continue at some point on Thursday possibly.  Anyway here is a start ... 

Tynemouth Workhouse Admission:
Nov 7th 1901
Battista, Lily
Spinster
Religion: EC
age: 18
Township: North Shields
Informant: Self
Name and Address of Nearest Relative: Father Giovanni  9 Bird Street

Lily was discharged Nov 27 1901

Tynemouth Workhouse Admission
Battista, Lily
Saturday 28th Dec 1901
9.18 pm
Spinster:
Religion: EC
Age: 18
Township: North Shields
Informant: Self
Name and Address of Nearest Relative: Father John, gone to Newcastle  No Address

Tynemouth Workhouse Admission
Battista, Lily
July 17th, 1902
7.40 pm
Spinster daughter of Giovanni. Lab.
Age:19
Religion: EC
Township: No Shds
Informant: Self
Name and Address of Nearest Relative: Father Turpins Bank  N.S..

Lily was discharged on July 26th 1902

Tynemouth Workhouse Admission:
November 17th 1902
Battista, Elizabeth, 15
Battista, Antonio, 13  1/2
Battista, John G, 11  1/2
Battista, Vincent, 8
Battista, William, 5
Battista, James, 3
All admitted at 3.30 pm
All were their own 'Informant'
All RC in religion
Nearest relative: Sister Lily, Fish Quay, North Shields

Tynemouth Workhouse Admission
Sept 11, 1905
6.20 pm
Vincent Batista
Age 11
RC Religion
Name and address of nearest relative: Lily Spence, 8 Norfolk Street, North Shields

Vincent was discharged August 17th, 1905.  There are ditto marks under another entry above for 'Taken out by sister.'

Antonio 'Batista' age 14 was discharged on Jan 7th 1903 at 6.40.  It records he was 'Taken out by brother.'

John George Battista was discharged on May 6th 1904 at 10.25 a.m.  'Taken to Welsely (sic) Ship

Elizabeth 'Batista' was discharged on Aug 17th 1904 age 16.  She was taken out by 'W. Brabant'.

An archive staff member told me that a scan of any workhouse page would cost £10. 

I will stop now but will be posting more as I get time.

St Cuthbert RC baptism
Enricus Leo Battista
Son of Joanni & Annae Battista nee Finley
Born 10 September 1901
Bapt 25 Sept 1901
Godparent: Maria Sedgwick

[River Tyne Lass]

I haven't as yet been able to find out what became of Giovanni unfortunately - do you have any further thoughts Battista - based on research found to date?

Here is another record I found from yesterday's research:

St Cuthbert RC baptism, North Shields
Antonia Battista
Born 7 Oct 1888
Bapt. 28 March 1901
Parents Giovanni and Elizabethae Battista
No maiden name or God parent name provided

[River Tyne Lass]

St Cuthbert RC baptism
Joanna Georgius Battista
Parents as above for Antonius
Just 1891 recorded for birthdays
Bapt. 28 March 1901
No Godparents recorded.
Note in margin for a marriage to Emma Anderson on 13 July 1911

[JenB]

Excellent sleuthing RTL 

Tynemouth Workhouse Admission:
November 17th 1902
Battista, Elizabeth, 15
Battista, Antonio, 13  1/2
Battista, John G, 11  1/2
Battista, Vincent, 8
Battista, William, 5
Battista, James, 3
All admitted at 3.30 pm
All were their own 'Informant'
All RC in religion
Nearest relative: Sister Lily, Fish Quay, North Shields

Interesting that in this record there is no mention of either the mother or the father as being the nearest relative 

From what you've found, the latest 'sighting' of Giovanni was in July 1902, living at Turpin's Bank in North Shields.