Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[battista]

I can’t do links at the moment, but check on Tyne & Wear Archives User Guides, Then select paupers records.

https://twarchives.org.uk/collection/user-guides-and-information

Details of the Paupers Records held by T & W Archives are in the section marked Other Topics.

As RTL said, there is often useful information to be found in the Workhouse Papers.

Ok, thanks. I did try and search that site a few weeks ago, had trouble using it. This will be useful

[libby9]

I don't think these have been mentioned, but such a long thread.

Born and died same year/qrt/Place

Birth
BATTISTA, ANGELINA        HALLIDAY  (MMN)
GRO Reference: 1911  M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B Page 87
Death
BATTISTA, ANGELINA        0      
GRO Reference: 1911  M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 77

Marriages Sep 1910   
Battista    Antonio/Margaret G Holliday         Newcastle T.    10b   140   

[battista]

I don't think these have been mentioned, but such a long thread.

Born and died same year/qrt/Place

Birth
BATTISTA, ANGELINA        HALLIDAY  (MMN)
GRO Reference: 1911  M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B Page 87
Death
BATTISTA, ANGELINA        0      
GRO Reference: 1911  M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 77

Marriages Sep 1910   
Battista    Antonio/Margaret G Holliday         Newcastle T.    10b   140

That marriage is for Antonio Battista, son of Vincenzo Battista. Vincenzo is Giovanni's brother. Angelina is Antonio and Margaret's child, I haven't actually done that branch of my tree yet.

@libby9 Thanks for the extra info

[battista]

Hi ,
Giovanni Battista , of 89,Finchley Road , Hampstead , Middlesex , died 16th May 1931 at The Italian Hospital , Queen Square , Middlesex . His widow was Camilla Battista .
Is this your  Giovanni ?

Unfortunately, that's not my Giovanni. The one who died in 1931 was born in about 1870 in Naples, whereas my Giovanni was born 1847 in Cassino/Rocca d'Arce, quite a bit of distance off time wise and location wise for both Italy and UK records.

I have seen that Giovanni Battista before, he's well documented on some ancestry family trees, which I've already looked at.

I remember I was excited when I first found that record, but another dead end

@gaynor Thanks for tracking that down, never know, could get lucky.

[gaynor]

Hi ,
Also found a Death Reg for
GIOVANI BATISTA , Dec quarter 1915 , Chelsea , England ;States age as being 55 yrs - ages on death certificates are not always exact , my grandmother died in 1970 and my uncle registered her age as being 2 yrs older than she was .

[battista]

Hi ,
Also found a Death Reg for
GIOVANI BATISTA , Dec quarter 1915 , Chelsea , England ;States age as being 55 yrs - ages on death certificates are not always exact , my grandmother died in 1970 and my uncle registered her age as being 2 yrs older than she was .

I've found that one too, I ordered the death certificate. Here's some info about it below.

• 'Giovani Battista' death index/certificate from 1915. Died in Chelsea, aged 55 years. Here it is: https://imgur.com/1W3G9E1 Age is off by about 13 years, location isn't where I'd expect and doesn't match with his son's birth certificate listing him as deceased in 1910. Could be him, but there's a lot wrong here, and I'm not sure how to check it.

The one who died in 1931 is 23 years off (and is well documented as a separate individual from my Giovanni), the one who died in 1915 is 13 years off. Could be him, but there's no matching evidence apart from the name to suggest that it is.

2 or 3 years age difference I'd expect, 13 - 23 years, is too far. Not to mention the locations are not near where my Giovanni has been known to live.

I've ruled out the 1931 for now, as I have records of him existing at the same time as my Giovanni (so I know there are two of them in England) as well as plenty of other records of the 1870-1931 Giovanni. 1915 death is not completely ruled out, it's still a possibility. However, it is the wrong location, age and also Giovanni's son's marriage certificate lists him as deceased in 1910, the Battista family has split up and he's nowhere to be found in the 1911 census. Still keeping an eye on that 1915 death though.

Some more information about the Chelsea death from 1915 can be found here: https://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/92019-Missing-death-index-and-certificate

[River Tyne Lass]

Hi Battista,

Lily Spence alias Battista appears in page 190 of the huge criminal mugshots book - John on pages 160 and 232; John Whalen is on page 145.  Tyne and Wear Archives would charge to take a copy of the photo and I am sure they could send this to you by email.  I will find out how much the current charge will be.

This is a wonderful photo in my opinion and so are the other ones I mentioned.  Lily looks very glum but she is wearing a very nice, fancy looking hat!  The earlier picture of John G Battista in the newspaper I mentioned are not The best in quality but The ones at Tyne and Wear Archives are excellent.  The images are excellent.  Hang fire for a little bit as I know there is a link on-line somewhere where someone out a lot of these photos.  I think it is on a TWAS blog.  I will ask the staff if they can tell me which blog.  It has been a while since I looked at it and unfortunately my ancestor wasn't one of the many included to I had to pay for his photo.  Sadly, my ancestor also was killed - 4 years after his mugshot photo in WW1.

This book of photos is so huge it is stored in a very big box and is very heavy!

If you can wait until back end of next week I will look at the newspapers North Shields library and see if I can find out the stories behind these arrests. 

[gaynor]

I didn't realise how many Giovanni Battista there were in the U.K. when I read your post and decided to see if I could help .
( I also found a newspaper article about a Giovanni Battista , dated May 1915 , who had drowned at sea during bad weather . I ruled this gentleman out as the article stated he was in the Royal Navy .)
Re the marriage certificate information , I wouldn't rule out Giovanni still being alive at the time . When couples split up the wives would often refer to themselves as "Widows" at this time .

[battista]

Hi Battista,

Lily Spence alias Battista appears in page 190 of the huge criminal mugshots book - John on pages 160 and 232; John Whalen is on page 145.  Tyne and Wear Archives would charge to take a copy of the photo and I am sure they could send this to you by email.  I will find out how much the current charge will be.

This is a wonderful photo in my opinion and so are the other ones I mentioned.  Lily looks very glum but she is wearing a very nice, fancy looking hat!  The earlier picture of John G Battista in the newspaper I mentioned are not The best in quality but The ones at Tyne and Wear Archives are excellent.  The images are excellent.  Hang fire for a little bit as I know there is a link on-line somewhere where someone out a lot of these photos.  I think it is on a TWAS blog.  I will ask the staff if they can tell me which blog.  It has been a while since I looked at it and unfortunately my ancestor wasn't one of the many included to I had to pay for his photo.  Sadly, my ancestor also was killed - 4 years after his mugshot photo in WW1.

This book of photos is so huge it is stored in a very big box and is very heavy!

If you can wait until back end of next week I will look at the newspapers North Shields library and see if I can find out the stories behind these arrests.

Thank you! I can definitely wait, I'm currently waiting for my GRO certificates, which will take weeks to get to me. I will definitely purchase the photos if I must

I didn't realise how many Giovanni Battista there were in the U.K. when I read your post and decided to see if I could help .
( I also found a newspaper article about a Giovanni Battista , dated May 1915 , who had drowned at sea during bad weather . I ruled this gentleman out as the article stated he was in the Royal Navy .)
Re the marriage certificate information , I wouldn't rule out Giovanni still being alive at the time . When couples split up the wives would often refer to themselves as "Widows" at this time .

Hmm, 1915 at sea. His son Pasqualino Battista was in the navy during this time. I wonder how old the Giovanni who drowned was, I can't find anything of relevance in the GRO or FreeBMD death indexes for that year (other than Chelsea Giovanni).

Yes, Giovanni Battista is quite a common name, it actually means John the Baptist, so you can imagine it was very popular with the Italians. Usually it's a compound first name, like Giovanni Battista Giraldi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Battista

In my case, Battista is actually his surname, not part of his given name. His brothers are all Battista too.

I haven't ruled out him being alive past 1910, if I do find a record that matches past that time, I'll happily welcome it