Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[JenB]

Hang fire for a little bit as I know there is a link on-line somewhere where someone out a lot of these photos.  I think it is on a TWAS blog. 

I think you might be thinking of this one, but it was only for the years 1871 - 1873
https://www.flickr.com/photos/twm_news/sets/72157625464218629/

[River Tyne Lass]

http://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/crime-and-punishment-in-north-shields/

Could it be this link?

By the way Tyne and Archives staff have since told me that they charge £7 per 'low res' photo emailed and £10  plus posting and packaging for each photo to be sent on CD.  Apparently, if you go on the ordering page it will give the cost of posting and packaging.

Added:  This is the link I was thinking of.    Aren't the photos fantastic! I haven't had time to check yet if the Battistas are included or not on here. 

[River Tyne Lass]

This has been a tight squeeze to fit this in today as I have to go off elsewhere soon and I am on nightshift tonight - however, I have nipped back to the archives and have found a discharge for William Battista at the Tynemouth Workhouse in North Shields:

Nov. 5th 1909
Batista William
age 12
Was discharged at 7 a.m.
He had been admitted from Tynemouth
Religion: RC
Remarks: To Industrial Ship "Southampton" at Hull.

I can stay here just a little while longer.  Can anyone provide any more information on the Battistas at the workhouse?  Does anyone have any knowledge of when they may have been admitted?  Any help may speed up my researching.

I think the workhouse records could prove useful if finding clues about what may have happened to Giovanni possibly.  It is definitely worth exploring, I think. 

Just as an aside there were a number of Whalen's discharged in January 1909.

[battista]

This has been a tight squeeze to fit this in today as I have to go off elsewhere soon and I am on nightshift tonight - however, I have nipped back to the archives and have found a discharge for William Battista at the Tynemouth Workhouse in North Shields:

Nov. 5th 1909
Batista William
age 12
Was discharged at 7 a.m.
He had been admitted from Tynemouth
Religion: RC
Remarks: To Industrial Ship "Southampton" at Hull.

I can stay here just a little while longer.  Can anyone provide any more information on the Battistas at the workhouse?  Does anyone have any knowledge of when they may have been admitted?  Any help may speed up my researching.

I think the workhouse records could prove useful if finding clues about what may have happened to Giovanni possibly.  It is definitely worth exploring, I think. 

Just as an aside there were a number of Whalen's discharged in January 1909.

Hmm, I can try, although I have no idea what to look for.

[JenB]

I think the Workhouse link with the boys could well be very useful, but I can't find any information about admission dates I'm afraid.

[River Tyne Lass]

Marriage for Orlsolina found!  Giovanna is not described as deceased so may have died after 1905!

St Augustin, North Shields
Entry 410
Francis Spence & Orlsolina Battista
June 3rd 1905
His age: 25
Her age: 21
Bachelor and Spinster
He was a Miner
Residence for both: 69 Linskill Street
Fathers: Francis Spence - Master (Mariner?) & John Battista - Tailor
By Banns
Witnesses: John (D or S?) Douglass & Susan Joyce.
All signed.

Also as a note, I have read over the marriage record for Giovanna and Anastasia for yesterday and it should read that one of the witnesses was William Bell.  Sorry, I got distracted by trying to get the RC spelling right I accidentally missed off his surname.  The other was 'Maria Joanna Battista'.

Battista, I didn't mean specifically you when I asked for more workhouse information I am just throwing this open to any RootsChatters who may be able to help.  I think I will be able to find the admittance records eventually, though perhaps not today.  May have to wait a week or two.  But I think this was a good idea of Jomot to have raised this again as the records may hold clues.

[battista]

Marriage for Orlsolina found!  Giovanna is not described as deceased so may have died after 1905!

St Augustin, North Shields
Entry 410
Francis Spence & Orlsolina Battista
June 3rd 1905
His age: 25
Her age: 21
Bachelor and Spinster
He was a Miner
Residence for both: 69 Linskill Street
Fathers: Francis Spence - Master (Mariner?) & John Battista - Tailor
By Banns
Witnesses: John (D or S?) Douglass & Susan Joyce.
All signed.

Also as a note, I have read over the marriage record for Giovanna and Anastasia for yesterday and it should read that one of the witnesses was William Bell.  Sorry, I got distracted by trying to get the RC spelling right I accidentally missed off his surname.  The other was 'Maria Joanna Battista'.

Battista, I didn't mean specifically you when I asked for more workhouse information I am just throwing this open to any RootsChatters who may be able to help.  I think I will be able to find the admittance records eventually, though perhaps not today.  May have to wait a week or two.  But I think this was a good idea of Jomot to have raised this again as the records may hold clues.

RE: Orsolina's marriage, that's also another certificate I ordered from GRO, specifically to find out if he was listed as deceased in 1905. And now you've just given me that information Very useful, I wonder if it was common to list your father as deceased (if they were actually deceased)?

As for admittance records, oh well, certainly in no rush, I should still be breathing in a week or two!

Once again, thank you so much for your help 

[JenB]

William Armstrong Battista, 13 - Sculcoates, Yorkshire-East Riding, inmate.
James Battista, 11 - Tynemouth, Northumberland, inmate.

I see that Giovanni's son, James Battista, was in fact on the training ship 'Wellesley' in 1911.

There is interesting information about this ship here http://blog.twmuseums.org.uk/the-training-ship-wellesley-at-north-shields-1868-1914/

The admission books for 'Wellesley are at Northumberland Archives reference number is NRO 07146/3/2.

[JenB]

RE: Orsolina's marriage, that's also another certificate I ordered from GRO, specifically to find out if he was listed as deceased in 1905. And now you've just given me that information Very useful, I wonder if it was common to list your father as deceased (if they were actually deceased)?

You need to be careful over this!

There have been very many threads on Rootschat about this very subject, and many examples of people thinking the father was alive, simply because the word deceased didn't occur on a marriage certificate. I myself spent aged searching for my g-g-g-grandfather's death after his son's wedding, because the word 'deceased' didn't occur on the marriage certificate. I later discovered that in fact g-g-g grandfather had died some 20 years before his sons marriage.

The fact is that the question 'is your father still alive?' wasn't always asked. If not asked, the information might not have been offered.

So, please treat the absence of the word 'deceased' with great caution.

Also, bear in mind the possibility that he might appear as 'deceased' on the 1910 certificate because he'd vanished from the scene and the family simply assumed he was dead