Help with occupation please - Dean, James and George 1861 census - Bilston

[teach3r]

Thanks Trish,

I had the baptism but not the other details you have kindly provided.

Nic

[teach3r]

Hi
James's Will 3.8.1872 left £1500 (James Hill Dean )
George Jeremiah Dean 1906 £675
father John's pawnbroker PCC Wills on Ancestry 18.4.1857 goes on for pages and pages
brothers Michael Holloway £123 Cardiff 1886  and  John Thomas of Napier NZ 1905 £124
John senior Jappaner 1849 £100 grandfather
All seem quite well off.

Ciderdrinker

Hi Ciderdrinker - thank you for this information.  I have found probate for James, George and their father John but I could not find anything for Michael, John Thomas or John senior.  Could you please tell me where you found these or where I should look (I have tried ancestry wills and the find a will website)?  I have put a separate post on today transcribing John's lengthy will.

Thank you,

Nic

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
Yes John Thomas  Dean
Death Date:   17 Mar 1905
Death Place:   New Zealand
Probate Date:   7 Feb 1911
Registry:   Napler

and Michael Holloway Dean
Death Date:   12 Jun 1886
Death Place:   Cardiff, Wales
Probate Date:   12 Jun 1905
Registry:   London, England

is on Ancestry  under England and Wales National Wills Index

The  John senior is under Wills at Lichfiled on FindMyPast or can be ordered from Stafford archives.
Or you could pm me with your e-mail and I'll send it along.
Actually opening up the file it's an Admin to the son John pawnbroker and the widow Martha  who had died before taking out An Admin..The son is trying to get back money owed to his father by James Thomas San?.

The burial to go with it is John Dean at Bilston 18.4.1849 age 77
Martha burial 20 Sep 1849 age 72
Presumably they married at Sedgley
John Dean and Martha Hill 22.8.1796.

They are on the 1841 census in Temple St Bilston both of Staffordshire
He is also in the 1818 Directory at Temple St jappaner by Parson and Bradshaw.
The 1798 Land redemption tax on Ancestry also gives him  in Bilston  .

Looking for a baptism I can only see one a bit older to John and Rachel on 24.2.1766.

Ciderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

Just spotted this
A very old Japan manufactory formerly belonging to Messrs. Dean is the Crown Tin and Japan Works, now belonging to Mr. John Froggatt. The buildings are of considerable extent, and the proprietor manufactures all kinds of japanned goods and tin wares, such as coal vases, trunks, toilets, bowls, baskets, &c., the machinery employed being of the newest and most adequate kind.

It's on
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/metalware/japmakers.htm

Cidedrinker

[teach3r]

Hello
Yes John Thomas  Dean
Death Date:   17 Mar 1905
Death Place:   New Zealand
Probate Date:   7 Feb 1911
Registry:   Napler

and Michael Holloway Dean
Death Date:   12 Jun 1886
Death Place:   Cardiff, Wales
Probate Date:   12 Jun 1905
Registry:   London, England

is on Ancestry  under England and Wales National Wills Index

The  John senior is under Wills at Lichfiled on FindMyPast or can be ordered from Stafford archives.

Thank you (again) Ciderdrinker.  I have now found and added the information you kindly gave above.  They are becoming a very interesting family!

I have had a quick look at John senior's paperwork but will crack on with that and the rest tomorrow.

Nic

[teach3r]

Do you have his Baptism?
St Leonard, Bilston;
JAMES HILL Dean 7 Sept 1829 (birth 16 Aug 1829) to JOHN/MARY ANNE, Father a Jappaner
(FreeREG)

I noticed he was widowed in 1861.

A sad story.
 
Burials;
Mary Ballinger Dean 25 Aug 1859 age 30
Christopher Ballinger Dean 25 Aug 1859 age 3 days
(FreeREG)

Baptism;
Christopher Ballinger Dean 20 Aug 1859 Parents James Hill Dean and Mary Ballinger Dean.
(FreeREG)

Marriage;
1858 to Mary Ballinger HARRIS
(FreeBMD)

Trish

Thank you Trish.  I have now had a chance to add and find all the information that you kindly suggested.  It has also taught me that the paid for sites are not always better than the free ones.  Freereg sometimes gave me more information that the same record on a subscription site.

Nic

[trish1120]

Yes Nic that is often true. I use multiple sources to try and confirm info.

Trish

[teach3r]

The  John senior is under Wills at Lichfiled on FindMyPast or can be ordered from Stafford archives.
Or you could pm me with your e-mail and I'll send it along.
Actually opening up the file it's an Admin to the son John pawnbroker and the widow Martha  who had died before taking out An Admin..The son is trying to get back money owed to his father by James Thomas San?.

Hi Ciderdrinker
These old Wills are fun and new to me!
I now understand that a letter of admin allowed John junior to administer the estate in the absence of a will from his father (his mother had also passed away).
With regards to getting the money back from James Thomas San I have interpreted the paperwork as John and Henry Arch are "held and firmly bound unto" the Vicar General £200 "to be paid unto the said James Thomas San"
Does this mean that the estate was less that £100 but had debts of £200? (or, as is more likely, have I misinterpreted it?)
Thank you again for sharing your wisdom with me!
Nic

[ciderdrinker]

Hi Nic
I'm not sure about the last bit.John owed £200 but whether the £100 the estate was worth was before the debt was paid or after I'm not sure.
On modern Wills and Admins the worth of the estate would be worked out after the debts are paid but not sure back then.Sorry
But at least you have it and as you say the old Wills can be fun.It never hurts to see which they preferred or who was the favourite grandchild.
I had ones were the daughter or son is disinherited because they married the wrong man or ran up debts .They certainly didn't hold back.

All the best
Ciderdrinker