Author Topic: how to know the "unknown"  (Read 2726 times)

Offline plimmerian

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how to know the "unknown"
« on: Wednesday 11 July 18 11:22 BST (UK) »
I've had an ancestry DNA test and received the results - but no DNA circles have been created (I still don't understand that feature!)

I was hoping the DNA test would finally reveal my "unknown" ancestor, should his descendants have had a test.

Now I have lots of potential cousins listed there but no obvious names or connections that match.

Am I hoping too much that the "unknown" will finally reveal himself?

my 3X great grandparents are-

Paternal-
plimmer (of salop)
horrocks (of lancs)
leigh (of lancs)
mills (of lancs)
swift (of lancs)
kenyon (of lancs)
blundell (of lancs)
rylance (of lancs)
aldridge (of durham)
morrison (b. kent)
stubbs (of lancs)
healey (of lancs)
burnett (of scotland)
pearson (of scotland)
howard (of lancs)
stanton (b. france)

Maternal-
lane (of yorks)
gaines (of yorks)
holt (of cheshire)
taylor (of cheshire)
ogden (of lancs)
woodward (of lancs)
houghton (of lancs)
stockton (of lancs)
jones (of wales)
williams (of wales)
"unknown" (?)
vaughan (of wales)
naylor (of up holland)
walmsley (of lancs)
naylor (of ashton in makerfield)
garvey (of ireland)

my percentages are-
 Great Britain 62%
 Ireland/Scotland/Wales 15%
 Scandinavia 6%
 Iberian Peninsula 6%
Low Confidence Regions
 Europe South 4%
 Europe West 2%
 Europe East 2%
 Caucasus 1%
 Finland/Northwest Russia <1%
 Asia South <1%

the mind boggles!!!

 :-\

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 11:32 BST (UK) »
Just a matter of patience, hard work and a great deal of effort on your part.

No 'Unknown' is going to come out and jump at you in the face at 4th cousin level. You have to explore your matches, and are unlikely to find Unknown with any degree or confidence if you know nothing at all about him or her.

As for DNA circles, they are highly unlikely to help you in your quest. Ancestry looks at your tree and matches you with people who have the same ancestor in their tree, name, date and place almost exactly matching. They won't put you in a circle with Unknown.

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

Offline PrawnCocktail

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 12:10 BST (UK) »
You could have a look at this Lost Cousins article:

https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/aug17news.htm#Masterclass

 ;D ;D
Website: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~towcesterfamilies/genealogy/
Towcester - anything, any time
Cheshire - Lambert, Houghland, Birtwisle
Liverpool - Platt, Cunningham, Ditton
London - Notley, Elsom, Billett
Oxfordshire - Hitchcock, Smith, Leonard, Taunt
Durham - Hepburn, Eltringham
Berwickshire - Guthrie, Crawford
Somerset - Taylor (Bath)
Gloucestershire - Verrinder, Colborn
Dorset - Westlake

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 12:26 BST (UK) »
Ian, over the last month while I've been waiting for my results, which came on Saturday, I have been studying DNA and genealogy in very great detail, after having spent 3 years researching my family tree. I have learnt a lot just using casual internet resources, and there are certain things that you need to understand such as SNPs and centiMorgans. It is a fascinating subject and I have scientific interests, but it is a daunting prospect and my big frustration is that I've spent the days since my results arrived using free access to Ancestry so I've hardly touched them, although I have had confirmation from my results that a cousin is definitely a cousin.

14:20 update.  Be prepared to be thoroughly overwhelmed with statistical data. I am a statistician and I find the amount of data that I've had to be quite astonishing. The first thing to do is to decide which 90% of it you are not going to ever bother with.


Offline davidft

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 12:53 BST (UK) »
Just a matter of patience, hard work and a great deal of effort on your part.

No 'Unknown' is going to come out and jump at you in the face at 4th cousin level. You have to explore your matches, and are unlikely to find Unknown with any degree or confidence if you know nothing at all about him or her.

As for DNA circles, they are highly unlikely to help you in your quest. Ancestry looks at your tree and matches you with people who have the same ancestor in their tree, name, date and place almost exactly matching. They won't put you in a circle with Unknown.

Regards Margaret


FWIW I fully endorse this reply, especially the first sentence.
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline diplodicus

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 15:25 BST (UK) »
Hello Plimmerian,

I have come to the conclusion that DNA test results might help illuminate one of the many dark recesses in my ancestral cupboard but more by luck than judgement. Like you Plimmerian, I have found it fairly straightforward to reach back to great-great-great-grandparents thanks to the online census resources. Also, there is more chance that the most recent pre-1841 church records have survived mice, damp and overenthusiastic vicars and are now being digitised. However, reaching back pre-1800 remains a much more difficult challenge.

And aye, there's the rub!

Nearly all autosomal DNA matches are fourth cousins or greater which, if you are as ancient as me, means people that lived in this pre-1800 period. So, unless you have a lot of these ancient connections already in your tree, then there is no match to be made with a name in your tree and so no family circle to draw.

I persuaded both a maternal and a paternal cousin to complete a test. This has enabled me to sort quite a lot of my "good" matches to one side of my tree or t'other. Quite honestly, most of the time all that means is that I now know in which half of the haystack to search for a needle.

Nevertheless, I have found (and met) two fourth cousins and am closing in on a couple more. I have also found many clusters of good matches with whom I probably share a common ancestor back in the (genealogical) dark ages in the 16th or 17th centuries.

I urge you to use the "notes" function for each match. Keep a note of the name of each "shared match" and soon you will start to see several results which at first glance were unrelated but in fact are connected to each other.

As ever, the ethnicity estimates are pleasant nonsense.
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny, Monmouthshire.
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 15:34 BST (UK) »
Diplodocus, I fully agree with what you say about the usefulness of censuses, but remember people only put down what they were prepared to let other people know. DNA is not so unforgiving and secretive.

Martin

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 16:13 BST (UK) »
Martin, Just a reminder to add 'Gedmatch' to your kit number.

diplodicus 'As ever, the ethnicity estimates are pleasant nonsense.'

What a lovely way of putting it. :)

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: how to know the "unknown"
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 11 July 18 16:16 BST (UK) »
Margaret, do you mean "... to add 'Gedmatch' to your kit number". Or vice versa?  Or under my picture?

It is on Gedmatch.

Martin