Author Topic: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)  (Read 373 times)

Offline AdamsHodgetts

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Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« on: Friday 27 July 18 19:09 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I've looked and don't seem to be able to find any records of Job Herrin's birth/baptism. I only have his marriage record and death certificate, the latter his age at death was amended from 64 to 68 years old, which would mean he was born around 1837.

I have the records as shown: -

Job Herrin (born around 1837 at Lye Waste and died on 4th November 1905 at 9, Hill Street, Quarry Bank from bronchitis)

married Ann Smith (1837 - 13 December 1921) at St. Michael's, Brierley Hill (FHL Film No: 1470584)

Children: -

Alice Lilia Priscilla Jane (1860 - 1920)
Jane Elizabeth (1864 - 1932)
Agnes (1866 - 1939)
Florella (1870 - 1952)
James Harry (1874 - 1932)
Albert Mabboth (1877 - 1952)
Lizzy Gertrude (1881 - 1958)
Arthur (1888 - ?)


Job's parents were James Herrin (1814 - 18 May 1874) and Jane Newey (1816 - ?).

Ann Smith's parents were John Smith (31 December 1809 - 1893) and Eliza Talbot (1812 - 1897).

John Smith was baptised on 31 December 1809 at Park Lane Presbyterian, Cradley, Worcestershire as shown below: -

  England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
View Record
Name   John Smith
Gender   Male
Baptism Date   31 Dec 1809
Baptism Place   Park Lane Presbyterian,Cradley,Worcester,England
Father   Thomas Smith
Mother   Kitty
FHL Film Number   0816598 (RG4 1907), 0816598 (RG4 2015)
Household Members   
Name   Age
Thomas Smith   
Kitty   
John Smith

As I don't have access to FHL Film Numbers, would anyone on here be able to help find out if this Kitty's maiden name is Sullivan as my Auntie can't remember where she had the surname Sullivan from and I cannot find anything for Kitty Sullivan.

Any help or advice will be very much appreciated.

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Online cath151

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #1 on: Friday 27 July 18 19:56 BST (UK) »
Hi
I wonder if this could be him, from familysearch
Job Herring
Christened 15th January 1837 Old Swinford, Worcs.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Ajob~%20%2Bsurname%3Aherrin~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aengland~

Parents James Herring and Jane

Cathy
Sinnock/Sinnicks...Brighton,Greenwich.
Clements,Coles,Mc Donagh,Rock

Census InformationCrown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk

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Offline AdamsHodgetts

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 28 July 18 10:19 BST (UK) »
Hi
I wonder if this could be him, from familysearch
Job Herring
Christened 15th January 1837 Old Swinford, Worcs.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Ajob~%20%2Bsurname%3Aherrin~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aengland~

Parents James Herring and Jane

Cathy

Hi Cathy,

Thank you so much and yes it is the same Job Herrin.  :)

Wondering if there is a way of obtaining a real christening document? It only says Oldswinford but not which church?

Mags

Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 28 July 18 11:04 BST (UK) »
Good Morning
The church at Old Swinford would be St Mary's next to Stourbridge Junction station.
It looks like James Herrin and Jane Newey married at Dudley St Thomas 19.6.1836.wit Thomas Allen and Thomas Taylor.Transcript from Freereg.

The records for Cradley Prebyterian Chapel are on ancestry.It doesn't give the mother's maiden name but adds they of the parish of  Rowley? County of Staffordshire.
Sister Pheobe 26 June 1806 , Sally 20 Sep 1812-23 Sep 1813 (at Rowley of Plant's Green),Abraham Sep 4th 1814,Zechariah Sep 27 1818 of Cradley Heath and Rowley (buried Rowley 9.4.1819) and Caroline 10 Sep 1820 of Rowley.(She was buried  at Rowley 5.3.1821 of Cradley).

There is an older daughter Mary at Halesowen 5.8.1804 and it looks like that is where they married 28 Dec 1803 Thomas Smith and Kitty Barnsley.
Other son at Halesowen Thomas 8.5.1808.

Halesowen was a huge parish covering Cradley,Halesowen,Oldbury,Blackheath and parts of Rowley.

I'd be looking at the 1841 census Beggers Row Rawley between Five Ways and Cradley Heath.
Thomas Smith ag lab 63 N
Thomas 33 chain maker y
Harriet 32 y
Kitty 6
Elizabeth 4
Mary Ann 2
John 4mths

Obviously it may not be them.But it seems to fit.

Ciderdrinker

Offline AdamsHodgetts

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 28 July 18 14:04 BST (UK) »
Good afternoon Ciderdrinker,

Thank you so much for the below: -

Good Morning
The church at Old Swinford would be St Mary's next to Stourbridge Junction station.

Thank you  :)

It looks like James Herrin and Jane Newey married at Dudley St Thomas 19.6.1836.wit Thomas Allen and Thomas Taylor.Transcript from Freereg.

Yes, I have James Herrin married to Jane Newey on 19th June 1836 at St. Thomas, Dudley


The records for Cradley Prebyterian Chapel are on ancestry.It doesn't give the mother's maiden name but adds they of the parish of  Rowley? County of Staffordshire.
Sister Pheobe 26 June 1806 , Sally 20 Sep 1812-23 Sep 1813 (at Rowley of Plant's Green),Abraham Sep 4th 1814,Zechariah Sep 27 1818 of Cradley Heath and Rowley (buried Rowley 9.4.1819) and Caroline 10 Sep 1820 of Rowley.(She was buried  at Rowley 5.3.1821 of Cradley).

There is an older daughter Mary at Halesowen 5.8.1804 and it looks like that is where they married 28 Dec 1803 Thomas Smith and Kitty Barnsley.
Other son at Halesowen Thomas 8.5.1808.

Halesowen was a huge parish covering Cradley,Halesowen,Oldbury,Blackheath and parts of Rowley.

I'd be looking at the 1841 census Beggers Row Rawley between Five Ways and Cradley Heath.
Thomas Smith ag lab 63 N
Thomas 33 chain maker y
Harriet 32 y
Kitty 6
Elizabeth 4
Mary Ann 2
John 4mths

Obviously it may not be them.But it seems to fit.

Apologies as I'm finding the above confusing. Is this Thomas Smith ag labourer, John Smith's father?

Ciderdrinker

I have the following from the 1841 census at Netherend, Halesowen, Worcestershire and there's a Denis Sullivan aged 90 - 94 at the bottom, which seems to confirm that he's somehow related to John Smith's mother, Kitty Sullivan, possibly her father/uncle/grandfather? : -

Ann Smith
England and Wales Census, 1841
Name:   Ann Smith
Event Type:   Census
Event Date:   1841
Event Place:   Halesowen, Worcestershire, England
Residence Note:   Netherend
Gender:   Female
Age:   5
Age (Original):   5
Birth Year (Estimated):   1836
Birthplace:   Worcestershire
Registration District:   Stourbridge
Parish:   Halesowen
County:   Worcestershire
Page Number:   13
Registration Number:   HO107
Piece/Folio:   1197/25
Affiliate Record Type:   Household
Household   Role   Sex   Age   Birthplace
John Smith      Male   30-34   Worcestershire
Eliza Smith      Female   25-29   Worcestershire
Harriott Smith      Female   6   Worcestershire
Ann Smith      Female   5   Worcestershire
Felix Smith      Male   3   Worcestershire
Hannah Smith      Female   1   Worcestershire
Denis Sulivan      Male   90-94   

My Auntie has John Smith married to Eliza Talbot on 24 July 1834 at Oldswinford, Staffordshire as well as John's parents Thomas and Kitty down in her records but I'm not having luck in verifying it but I have come across Eliza's possible parents, Richard Talbot and Sarah?: -

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
View Record
Name   Eliza Talbot
Gender   Female
Baptism Date   20 Sep 1812
Baptism Place   Park Lane Presbyterian,Cradley,Worcester,England
Father   Richard Talbot
Mother   Sarah
FHL Film Number   0816598 (RG4 1907), 0816598 (RG4 2015)
Household Members   
Name   Age
Sarah   
Richard Talbot   
Eliza Talbot


Thanks

Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #5 on: Monday 30 July 18 10:18 BST (UK) »
Hello
Yes I thought the Thomas Smith ag lab was John Smith's father.
I went with the marriage at Halesowen of Thomas Smith and Kitty Barnsley so mom would be Kitty Barnsley not Sullivan.
But your right Denis Sullivan has to come into it somewhere.

Ancestry at my Library is playing up at the moment but it looks like Richard and Sarah Talbot married at Kingswinford 26 Feb 1792 -Richard Talbot and Sarah Taylor.

Children Hannah 9.4.1795 of New Pool Cradley,Parthenia 22.10.1797 of Cradley Forge,Shardrach 24.3.1799 of Furnace Lane Cradley Forge,Thomas 18.7.1802 of Cradley Forge in the parish of Rowley,Harriet 28.7.1805 of the parish of Kingswinford,Elizabeth 10.11.1808 of the Level parish of Kingswinford,Eliza 20.9..1812  in the parish of Kingswinford and Edwin 3.1.1816

So where do the Sullivans come into it? Strange could he be a lodger that the only thing I can think of.
I'll see if I can find anything

Ciderdrinker

Offline AdamsHodgetts

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 31 July 18 15:28 BST (UK) »
Hello
Yes I thought the Thomas Smith ag lab was John Smith's father.
I went with the marriage at Halesowen of Thomas Smith and Kitty Barnsley so mom would be Kitty Barnsley not Sullivan.
But your right Denis Sullivan has to come into it somewhere.

Ancestry at my Library is playing up at the moment but it looks like Richard and Sarah Talbot married at Kingswinford 26 Feb 1792 -Richard Talbot and Sarah Taylor.

Children Hannah 9.4.1795 of New Pool Cradley,Parthenia 22.10.1797 of Cradley Forge,Shardrach 24.3.1799 of Furnace Lane Cradley Forge,Thomas 18.7.1802 of Cradley Forge in the parish of Rowley,Harriet 28.7.1805 of the parish of Kingswinford,Elizabeth 10.11.1808 of the Level parish of Kingswinford,Eliza 20.9..1812  in the parish of Kingswinford and Edwin 3.1.1816

So where do the Sullivans come into it? Strange could he be a lodger that the only thing I can think of.
I'll see if I can find anything

Ciderdrinker

Hi,

I've been trying to work out, see if the Smith family from Beggars Row, Rowley are the same family but I'm not sure how to find any specific chapel records on Ancestry.com so am wondering how you have found this by using Cradley Prebyterian chapel records on Ancestry.com? Do you search for family names or by names of chapels/churches?

If it is the same John Smith, then again the ages change as he was 4 months old on 1814 census and our John Smith was baptised on 31 December 1809 at Park Lane Presbyterian. There must have been thousands of John Smiths as both name and surname is very common so a nightmare!

Thanks

Offline Floozy

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #7 on: Friday 12 October 18 14:01 BST (UK) »
I came up with Kitty Bransley too
DEWSTOWE/DUSTOW, WADE, REED, ROGERS, GARRETT, HAY, KERR, BAS-TED HUSBAND  COOKE/COOK, GOWER, JEFFREYS,DAVIES, OATES or OATS, , GREASLEY/GREASLY, BIRD, BOSWELL, WILLEY, WHEADON, PARKER, ABBOTT?(maybe not related), JONES, QUINN, SCOTT, ISBESTER or ISBISTER?, LLOYD, RICHARDS, WHETTALL
Names come from Redruth, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland and possibly Ireland. And other parts of England.
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AdamsHodgetts

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Re: Herrin and Smith (LYE WASTE & QUARRY BANK)
« Reply #8 on: Friday 12 October 18 18:19 BST (UK) »
I came up with Kitty Bransley too

Do you have the source? As so far I can't connect our John Smith baptised on 31 December 1809 to any Kitty that has a maiden name on Ancestry and Family Search. No luck on FreeReg or FreeBMD.  :'(

My Auntie says Kitty's surname was Sullivan. And there was a Denis Sullivan aged 90, sailor or tailor who could have been Kitty's grandfather at the bottom of the 1841 census under John Smith's family.