Burton's in Caerphilly and Barry, then Cardiff. Need meat on bones :(

[rebekahm28]

I accept that they're possibly hard to find because they're Romany gypsy, but I still feel I'm overlooking something. I have my Jemima Burton (WHO NEVER MARRIED) on the 1939 census in a gypsy wagon in Barry, Glamorgan with her widowed mum Amelia and siblings Richard/Dickie and Albert (both single), plus an Alice Burton who was married. Jemima's birth year given as 1899. Her Caerphilly baptism says born 1910, baptised 1914. The next record I have for her is her death cert which also gives her birthyear as 1910, born Caerphilly, Glamorgan and died 1982 in Cardiff. Her cousin Elizabeth Hern signed with an X. Possibly surname should be Hearne, as some were camping with the family in 1939, although there are some Hern's around Cardiff. My 2nd cousin recalls visiting Jemima 'in the 1960s' but can't remember where, as she was a small child. There was also another brother named Charlie. No surprise I cant find a birth record, they weren't always reg'd. It's her ancestry I want, what was her mum Amelia's maiden name? Did the siblings marry? I cant seem to find anyone on previous census or marriage records.

[Ladyhawk]

I accept that they're possibly hard to find because they're Romany gypsy, but I still feel I'm overlooking something.

 I have my Jemima Burton (WHO NEVER MARRIED) on the 1939 census in a gypsy wagon in Barry, Glamorgan with her widowed mum Amelia and siblings Richard/Dickie and Albert (both single), plus an Alice Burton who was married. Jemima's birth year given as 1899.

 Her Caerphilly baptism says born 1910, baptised 1914.

The next record I have for her is her death cert which also gives her birthyear as 1910, born Caerphilly, Glamorgan and died 1982 in Cardiff.

 It's her ancestry I want, what was her mum Amelia's maiden name? Did the siblings marry? I cant seem to find anyone on previous census or marriage records.

Do you have any other info. from the Caerphilly baptism record

Does it give an exact date of birth? An address? Father's name?

Jemima Burton died age 72 Birth  Sep 1910
Sep 1982 South Glamorgan Volume:   28 Page:   1761

Was it a family members name as informant on her d/c?

On the off chance that one of the births might have been registered have you looked on GRO indexes using the dates born from 1939 register to see if there's a mmn?

Is there any connection to this BURTON family?

1911c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6P-RV4 living
Eglwysilan, Caerphilly, Glamorganshire
Noraner Burton   Head   Female   69   Licensed Hawker In pegs and lace
George Burton   Son   Male   29   Wellington, Somersetshire Horse dealer
Bertha Burton   Daughter   Female   27   Penybont
Dona Burton   Daughter   Female   24   Bangor, Carnarvonshire
Amelia Burton   Daughter   Female   17   Caerphilly

[osprey]

Charlie was baptised on the same day as Jemima, his date of birth noted as 9 Feb 1914, no obvious birth registration.

Father on baptism is Richard, occupation gipsy, The Meadow, Caerphilly

[osprey]

I wonder if this Richard Burton aged 23 being imprisoned in Cardiff in 1897 is the father?

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3371181/3371192/274/

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4605574/4605576/27/

[rebekahm28]

Ooh he could be Osprey, yes. Yes both father and son were named Richard so could well be. I'll use that newspaper archives in the future, never used it before!

Ladyhawk, there are no birth entries and most of my family didnt have them. (Romany). Thankyou Osprey for posting baptism info, I've only just had chance to come back online. Saw the Noraner Burton (etc) family, Ive kept it as I feel there must be a link, haven't established it yet as I don't have much at all on this family.

[Ladyhawk]

I wonder if this Richard Burton aged 23 being imprisoned in Cardiff in 1897 is the father?

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3371181/3371192/274/

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4605574/4605576/27/

Thanks Osprey for giving father's name of Jemima from her baptism

I wonder if this might be Richard, although year of birth is a little earlier

 1891 RG12; Piece: 2054; Folio: 78; Page: 12  Peterstow, Herefordshire
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4TCM-H2M

Travellers Van & Tents  on the Common,
all occ., Hawkers

Selina Burton Head M 44 Hereford
? (Fowler) son 26 Cardiganshire
RICHARD son 20 Staffordshire
Emmanuel son 19 Chester
Herbert son 18 not known
Dina Cardon companion single 35 Worcestershire
Nora Smith Companion single 19 Worcestershire

I know your focus in on Jemima Burton and trying to find out her mother Amelia's maiden name
but thought I'd post these Burton census entries for you to look at just in case they might be related

1911 The Brooks Penallt, Monmouthshire
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7P9-9J1
Selina Burton Head Widow 70 Cross Hill Gloucester Hawker
Selina Burton   Daughter   42   Moldle, Shropshire
Emmanuel Burton   Son  38   Rexbury, Cheshire
Isabl Burton   Daughter   29   Pentrecoed, Shropshire

1871 Newhall Wrenbury
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBN2-PBD
Sleeping in tents in the Highway

Charles Burton 37 Pontypool S Wales grinder and tinker
Elizabeth 40 Salop
Emily 16 Wrenbury Ches.
Selina 13 Hereford

[osprey]

hmm, I'd spotted that family in 1901, at least I think it's the same family, but the ages are interesting

In Caravan, Shirenewton, Mon RG13/4915 folio 105 pg 15
Charles Birden head mar 55 hawker b. Nk
Selina wife 69 hawker b. Nk
James son 38 hawker b. Gloucestershire
Acine (?) dau 31 hawker b. Shropshire
Isabella dau 28 hawker b. Shropshire
Herbert son 23 hawker b. Shropshire
Richard son 22 hawker b. Shropshire


 

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Wondering if this is another story about him - pity the wife isn't named

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3271206/3271209/59/

Added - this story seems to confirm, as Emmanuel had a previous falling out with the same family
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4327268/4327271/16/

And a story about Charles where the daughter is named Sena

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4236747/4236755/110/

[osprey]

given the 1911 in Penallt, there was a burial 12 Dec 1909 in Mitchel Troy for Charles Burton 69 of Millbrook, Penallt.

Also, 12 Jan 1912 burial of Syner Burton 42 of Penallt.

OK, just searched Mitchel Troy burials for Burtons & look like several of your family are there.

Albie Alfred Burton 47 Newport bd 8 Nov 1965
Amelia Burton 67 Newport bd 7 Dec 1943
Charles Burton 57 Newport bd 23 Dec 1969
Emmanuel Burton 75 Brook Orchard Bungalow, Mitchel Troy bd 28 Aug 1943
Herbert Burton 70 Brook Orchard Bungalow, Mitchel Troy bd 3 July 1943
Isabell Burton 69 The Bungalow, Mitchel Troy Common bd 22 Nov 1941
Jemima Burton 71 Rumney, Cardiff bd 6 Sep 1982
Richard Burton 65 Monmouth bd 17 Sep 1938
Richard Burton 63 Newport bd 7 May 1970
Selina Burton 94 Mitchel Troy bd 27 Jan 1926

There was also Josiah Burton aged 30 buried in 1920 and Timothy aged 72 in 1843. I'd hoped the marriages were in the same church, but no.