Kiama, NSW Birth - Hellen GRANT

[jma09]

I am looking for a birth record for Hellen GRANT born 14 August 1866 in Kiama.  Her father was Abraham GRANT and her mother was Ellen (noSurname)

Hellen and her father moved up to Mudgee and then Cobborah, NSW in 1867.  I don't know where Ellen went. (maybe she died in childbirth?)

I have checked the NSW BMDs and the Kiama independent BMDs but no luck.

Can anyone help please?  I don't really know where to look next.  Cheers J

[wivenhoe]

"........Hellen GRANT born 14 August 1866 in Kiama. "
What is your source for this information?


"..Hellen and her father moved up to Mudgee and then Cobborah, NSW in 1867."

How do you see them at Mudgee and Cobborah?

[majm]

Hi there,

Did Hellen marry in NSW?  Is that her marrying in the Dubbo district in 1893,  and if so, do you have that m.c.   and .... does it have some blanks on it?   Until around 1895 there was a long running (4 decades) dispute between the Churches and the Civil Administration of the Registrar General re BDMs...  Most of the rural registrations for marriage were only summary info sent through to Sydney.  So lots of information was on the Church registers but not sent to Sydney Reg Gen.   

IF that's likely, for Hellen's marriage registration to John SUTTON ... then perhaps you could spare a moment to go through the following thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0 to help find that elusive info... which should include the maiden name of Hellen's mum... 

NSW BDM #3230 of 1893, deduced date from online index 4 October 1893
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx

JM

[wivenhoe]

You are researching the origins of this Hellen?  And you have the death certificate?

Do you have the marriage certificate, 1893?.   Can you list the information on it please.

BDM NSW marriage
3230/1893   GRANT  Hellen    m.       SUTTON John T   @ Dubbo


death
1745 / 1937 SUTTON  Hellen Elizabeth parents Abram / Mary  @ Dubb0


The Dubbo Liberal and Macquarie Advocate  9 Jan 1937 p1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131588552?
....obituary for Ellen Elizabeth SUTTON.......aged 71 years.....wife of John SUTTON.......survived by a brother  Mr  O  KNIGHT....

[jma09]

Ok
This my gggrandmother.  She was bought up in cobborah/dubbo in the family of john knipe and mary bramhall. 

I have the details for her marriage to john T Sutton from  the SAG parish record presb. Church dubbo.  Placeofbirth = Kiama father abraham GRANT mother Ellen.

Her death in 1937 lists her father as Abraham but her mother as Mary.

Hellen’s brother Oscar Abram Knight (from the dubbo liberal) is a misspelt Knipe, as Oscar is the son of John/mary.
Abraham is on the 1869/70 electoral roll for Cobborah. 
That’s about all I know, which is mostly after her marriage.  But who is abraham/ellen?

[wivenhoe]

You have said that Hellen and her father moved up to Mudgee and then Cobborah, NSW in 1867.

Where are you seeing Hellen's father with her, and in 1867?

Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate. It should have  occupation, witnesses, father's occupation, ....for Hellen and husband John T SUTTON. Can you give all the information please.

When did Hellen start to live with the KNIPE family?

Where did you find the  birth date...14 Aug 1866?

[majm]

http://www.family.joint.net.au/index.php?mid=1&cid=160

1872 Grevilles PO Directory ... Abraham was not listed in that for Cobbara ... but there's a search engine option that you may find useful.

JM

[jma09]

The full marriage register is attached.  Hellen's birthday was in the family bible and it aligns with her age at marriage.

I also have looked at the gazettes and there is some unclaimed mail for Abraham GRANT at Mudgee for 1867 and 1873/74. 

Abraham is not on the 1872 Grevilles but he is on the (supplementary) Bogan electoral roll for 1869-70, residing at Cobbera, Talbragar River. John Knipe is in the 1872 Grevilles also at Cobbera, Talbragar River.

[wivenhoe]

What is the earliest evidence you have of Hellen GRANT, before her name on the marriage certificate?

How and where do you see her with her father?

How and where do you see Hellen GRANT with the KNIPE family?

Can you please scan, and place here,  the whole page in the bible which has the birth reference.