Gibson/Keith Gibson/ Tweedie Carlyle

[Barlowclan]

Hi All,
I am wondering if anyone could help me with the Gibson family of Midlothian.
David Gibson married Margaret Keith  18 OCT 1788  Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Their son Stuart Gibson married Mary Tweedie Carlyle 02/02/1818 Saint James Westminster.
I have been unable to find any of them in census records.
I know that Stuart moved to Australia circa 1854 with his daughters Charlotte and Mary Anne, unsure what happened to his wife.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Wendy B.

[Barlowclan]

Still no information on this family. Not sure where to start looking, any suggestions would be great.
Cheers
Wendy B.

[Tom Huygens]

Hi Wendy,

10 years after you posted this, I suppose you already have some more information. But still, here's what I found out.

There are not many Stuart Gibsons around so I am quite sure about the following:

Stuart marries Mary Carlyle in Westminster in 1818. They had 5 children together:

- Margaret Ann 1819
- William 1822
- Charlotte Donaldson 1828
- Mary Ann Frances 1830
- James 1834

Stuart has 4 more children, but they have "Mary Ann" as their mother, not "Mary" or "Mary Tweedie".

- Margaret Ann 1837
- Eleanor Eliza 1841
- Stuart 1843
- Alfred 1845

There is a marriage in St Anne Soho between Stuart Gibson, widower, and Mary Ann Mayfield.
This almost surely means that Mary Tweedie has died between 1834 and 1837 and Stuart remarried, having young children to take care of.

I found Stuart and his family in the 1841 census in St Anne Soho and in the 1851 census living in Marylebone.

I have not yet found what happened to al; his children, but: Margaret Ann b1837 died in 1839. Since he wouldn't have had two girls with the exact same name, we can assume that the Margaret Ann b1819 had died as well. Charlotte came to Australia in 1858, Mary Ann already in 1848. William followed them in 1859 but died on board the ship.
Eleanor Eliza was living with her sister Charlotte in 1851, after that she disappears (under that name; maybe she married but I haven't found a marriage yet).
Alfred, James and Stuart Jr are not to be found in the 1861 census.



I strongly believe that my 4th great-grandmother was Stuart's sister, even if I can't find a baptism anywhere. She was Mary Ann Gibson, and married Edward Francis. Stuart called his daughter Mary Ann Francis. Her second husband's younger brother, Thomas Henderson, married Charlotte Donaldson. Charlotte Donaldson Gibson was born about a year after Thomas' husband passed away. Stuart's second marriage was witnessed by George Henderson, yet another brother of Mary Ann Gibson's husband, and Stuart himself witnessed a couple of weddings as well.
There is a load of Caryles involved as well, a huge puzzle. The three families (Gibson, Henderson, Carlyle) seem to be quite closely connected: they are all tailors/dress makers/seemstresses, they marry between them, and most of them lived at less than a mile from each other.

If you are interested in what I have put together, let me know and I'll send you an invite to my ancestry tree.


Regards,
Tom

[Barlowclan]

Hi Tom, Stuart is my GGG Grandfather, his daughter Charlotte Donaldson Gibson my GG Grandmother married John James, Children were Charlotte James 1850, John Stuart James 1852, William James 1854, Emily James 1857, Florence James 1863 my G Grandmother, and her twin Mary Ann Francis 1863, Eleanor 1865, Walter 1866, Laura St Clair Carlyle James 1868. I am originally from Australia now live in California would be happy to swap notes and information. Do either of you have photos of the Gibson line? BTW Stuarts parents are David Gibson and Margaret Keith they married at St Cuthberts Edinburgh, 18th October 1788. Would love to see your ancestors tree.
Cheers Wendy M.

[Tom Huygens]

Hi Wendy,

yes, I did have David and Margaretn in St Cuthbert. I am not too sure about David's parents though. Many trees seem to say the he's the son of Andrew Gibson and Ann Hutton, but without giving any reason for that. There is another David Gibson, son of Andrew Gibson and Jean Greig, who could fit the bill.

Sure I can share my tree with you. I will send you an invitation. Your ancestry-name is barlowclan as well, no?

Regards,
Tom

[Barlowclan]

Hi Tom,
Yes Barlowclan it is. My Fathers cousin had started to work on the family tree a number of years ago but did not go back any further than David Gibson and Margaret Keith. I have been to Edinburgh and spent some time in the Scotland History house which is fascinating and has many records (birth and Marriages), not sure if Andrew was married to Ann Hutton or Jean Greig. Do you know how many children David Gibson and Margaret Keith have? I do not have Mary Ann, I have David 1789, Helen 1791 and Stuart 1795. I believe this data was collected from Scotlandspeople.gov.uk
My sister and I spent a lot of time collecting data however stalled a number of years ago.
BTW I have a copy of a couple of letters that Stuart sent to Charlotte when he was living in Australia and trying to get her to come down to live there.
Cheers
Wendy M.

[Tom Huygens]

Invitation sent

I have 7 children for David Gibson and Margaret Keith, but only proof (baptism records) for 3 of them, the David Helen and Stuart you have too.

The other children are a "deduction" on my side. Dates are "about":

1) Martha (b1788)
2) David (b1789)
3) Helen (b1791)
4) Stuart (b1795)
5) Charlotte (b1797)
6) Elizabeth (b1800)
7) Mary Ann (b1804)

There is a lot of confusing info, but too many "coincidences" to be just that.
In short:

- Charlotte Gibson married William Donaldson, Mary Ann Gibson married (1st) Edward Francis; two of Stuart's daughters were called Charlotte Donaldson and Mary Ann Francis
- Mary Ann Gibson / Francis' daughter was called Eleanor Eliza, so was another daughter of Stuart
- Mary Ann remarried James Henderson; James' younger brother Thomas was married to Charlotte Gibson / Donaldson's daughter Margaret (named after her maternal grandmother?)
- another one of his brothers, George Henderson, was a witness to Stuart's second marriage
- Stuart witnessed William Donaldson's second marriage (after Charlotte had died around 1828)
- Elizabeth Gibson was a witness to Mary Ann's marriage to Edward Francis
- Elizabeth Gibson was also a witness to Stuart's first marriage (to Mary Tweedie)
- the second witness to Stuart's first marraige, was Samuel Wills; he married a Martha Gibson in 1809, and they had several children, amongst whom a Charlotte and a Margaret
- this Charlotte Wills was a witness to Stuart's second marriage
- Mary Ann's daughter Eleanor Eliza married a Carlyle; William Donaldson's 2nd wife was a Carlyle; Stuart's 1st wife was a Carlyle
- they were all tailors, seemstresses, dress makers etc, living within a mile from each other


So, adding this up I am quite convinced that Martha, Mary Ann, Elizabeth and Charlotte are Stuart's sisters, even if there are no baptisms.

According to the census, Mary Ann was born in St James Westminster in 1804. Charlotte died before the 1st census and I haven't traced Elizabeth yet. I guess David and Margaret took their 3 or 4 children and moved to London, after which they had some more.
Martha's birth year is solely based on her marriage: she would have had to be over 21 in 1809, so 1788 seems plausible, though she would have been a pre-marriage child since David was "conceived" about 2-3 months after the wedding. On the other hand, Mary Ann married her first husband at the age of 15 too so...

Regards,
Tom

PS I would love to read those letters, if I can... I promise I won't put them online!