Correct nomenclature for Counties (!)

[PrueM]

Original title: Question about county abbreviations

Fellow listers, I have a question which has been bugging me for a long time.
What is the origin of the abbreviations of Shropshire (Salop), Hampshire (Hants - and also Northamptonshire, Northants), and Oxfordshire (Oxon)?
I could understand it if they were hangovers from earlier times when spellings were different, but if that's the case then why have only these few hung on, while others have changed with the times?
I know it's not  important, but it's going to bother me forever if I don't find out the answer soon!!
Hope someone can put me out of my misery! 
Prue

[Arranroots]

Hi Prue

We discussed this in part when Ancestry took to calling Hampshire Hantshaving:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,46002.0.html

I think Oxon is from the latin for Oxford, Oxoniensis.

Not sure about Salop, but assumed it is one of the old county names that were lost during a reorganisation somewhere along the way?  Would be interested to know.

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi Prue,

Arranroots is right: 

Oxon.  Abbreviation for Oxoniensis (Latin ‘of Oxford’).
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0021348.html

Also:
cantab = cantabrigiensis
Cantabrigiensis, rather, the adjectival form of the noun Cantabrigia.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t110332.html

and in the Shrewsbury Guide:
http://www.shrewsburyguide.info/shrewsbury_history.html
Salop
You may occasionally find the town referred to as "Salop", particularly in historical records or publications. In fact Salop is the original name of the county of Shropshire, which of course includes the town of Shrewsbury. Locals will still often describe themselves as Salopians as do students past and present from the Shrewsbury Boys School.

As for Northants !

The name Northamptonshire comes from Old English North Hamtunscir meaning northern home town.
www.uktouristinfo.com/county.php?county=northamptonshire

I seem to recall something similar in the debate on Southamptom / Hampshire which Arranroots also references.

Bob

[Little Nell]

From Genuki:

"Salop" derives from "Sloppesberie", the original Anglo-French name for this county.

Bob is correct, we have had this debate about Hantshaving before.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,46002.0.html

I can remember looking for information about it then.  Now all Google comes up with are various message boards with information from the 1891 index (from Ancestry) in them.  There are a number of claims that this is the original name for the county, but no-one has yet explained how it got that alleged original name.

Personally, I'm with the guy from the English Place-Name Society.  I had never heard of it before!

Nell

[Emjaybee]

Shropshire came into existence as a unit of government in the early 10th century. The oldest known form of the name of the county is SCROBBESCIRE, the shire belonging to SCROBBESBYRIG, the Saxon name for Shrewsbury. After the Norman Conquest the county's new rulers adopted the forms SALOPESCIRE and SALOPESBIRY. The word SALOP, applying both to the county and the county town, survived from the middle ages as an alternative English form, having originally been abbreviated from the Norman French. A Latin form, SALOPIA, was commonly used in documents in the 16th century, and in subsequent centuries legal records refer to the County of Salop rather than to Shropshire. The new authority established in 1974 under the Local Government Act of 1972 was officially named Salop, but this was altered to Shropshire with effect from 1st March 1980

[Nick Carver]

Reminds me of a quiz question which stated that if Essex is where the East Saxons settled and Wessex is where the West Saxons settled, Sussex for the South Saxons and Middlesex for the Middle Saxons, then where did the North Saxons settle? I think the answer was Leicester, which I considered rather unfair.

[snaggletooth]

Doing English ancestry from the depths of Australia is not easy at the best of times, but gets a bit more difficult when it comes to giving places their correct name.

The thing that puzzles me most is use (or non-use) of "shire" on the end of county names. My tribe comes mainly from the south, so I have Dorset and Dorsetshire...and a few from York, others from Yorkshire, then Devon and Devonshire. This may be mixing counties and cities, but I'm sure you get my drift.

Is there a simple rule? What do the locals do? Guidance would be most welcome..  :-)

Paul
Australia


Moderator Comment: topics merged

[snaggletooth]

Doing English genealogy is difficult enough without stumbling over how to refer correctly to counties.

Most of my tribe come from the south, so should I use Dorset or Dorsetshire, Devon or Devonshire? The documentation I have cheerily mixes them up for me.

I don't think I could strip "shire" from Cheshire, but what about Yorkshire?

I'm sure this has had prior debate, and there is some recommended way of doing this. Would someone like to advise me, please?

Paul


Moderator Comment: topics merged
Australia

[Darcy]

Hi Paul,

you will find an explanation regarding  English "Shire Counties" here -

http://www.answers.com/topic/shire-1

Regards
Darcy