John Semmens & Rebecca Gouch in Goldhanger

[pjaj]

Can anyone provide any further details on the following individuals?
John Semmens B 1839 Goldhanger, Maldon Essex D 1901. Croydon
Married
Rebecca Gouch B 1845 Goldhanger, Maldon Essex D(?) 1881 Greenwich.
Their 4 children were:-
Mary Jane (Married William ?)
John B 1870 in Goldhanger
Elizabeth Kingsbery B 2Q1873 in Goldhanger, Married 18/12/1892 to Henry Wright Ayling, D 24/1/1945 Lewisham.
Ruth Maud B 1876 in Rotherhithe, Married 1893 (St Saviour, Southwark 1d 46) to ?
she had 2 children Bobby and charles.

John's parents were James Semmens B Abt 1803 in Tollesbury, and Mary Ann ? B Abt 1805 in Little Totham. He had 4 brothers Mark, David, Martin and Job.

Apart from Elizabeth (my GGrandmother) I have been unable to track down any B,  M or D records for this group or the names of spouses.

[AMBLY]

Hi

Looks like Ruth Maud SEMMONS married John Thomas TAYLOR - as per the ref you gave, in 1893.

The other couple on the page are Oliver STUPPLE and Emily YEO,  who are together with their children in St Olave in 1901  (I also think Emily died in 1905, and Oliver remarried 1907).

So as to Ruth Maud  - is there any chance she also had a daughter named Annie - because this looks like it could be her her in 1901:

1901: St Pauls Deptford, London
Ref: RG13/ Piece 526- Folio 36- Pg 63
Address: 8 Alpine Road
Head: Robert MISSEN 26, marr, Shopman Grocer (worker) b Bermondsey
Visitor: Ruth M TAYLOR 25, b Rotherhithe
Visitor: Annie E TAYLOR 3, b Rotherhithe
Son: Robert E MISSEN 1, b Rotherhithe

And this could be her husband John:
1901: Rotherhithe All Saints, St Olave, London
Ref: RG13/ Piece 400- Folio 270- Pg10.
Saint Olaves Union Infirmary
Patient: John Thomas TAYLOR 28, married, Tin Plate Worker, b Bermondsey

I did notice that on the 1881, she appears to be named as just "Maud", and I looked for a Maud TAYLOR to match in 1901 also, but the above is the best match I could find.

Cheers
AMBLY

[cep]

1841 Goldhanger, Essex   HO107 339/1 6 p6

Fish Street
James Gooch, 60, Ag Lab
Rebecca Gooch, 55
James Gooch, 35, Waterman
Mary Gooch, 5
John Gooch, 2

All b. Essex


1851 Goldhanger, Essex   HO107 1778 633 p1

Fish Street
Rebecca Gooch, head, wid, 65, b. Little Totham


1851 Goldhanger, Essex   HO107 1778 634 p3

Fish Street
James Gooch, head, wid, 46, Fisherman, b. Little Totham
Mary Gooch, dau, 15, b. Goldhanger
John Gooch, son, 12, b. Goldhanger
Rebecca Gooch Kingsbury, visitor?, 6, b. Goldhanger
George Garried?, lodger, unm, 22, Ag Lab, b. Layer Marney?


1861 Goldhanger, Essex   RG9 1091 76 p16

a? Street
Rebecca Gooch, head, wid, 76, Ag Lab Wid, b. Lt Totham
/
James Gooch, head, wid, 56, Waterman, b. Lt Totham
Rebecca Gooch, dau, unm, 16, b. Goldhanger


1871 Goldhanger, Essex   RG10 1675 81 p22

Fish Street
James Gooch, head, wid, 66, Fisherman, b. Goldhanger
Rebecca Simmons, dau, mar, 26, Mariners Wife, b. Goldhanger
Mary J Simmons, grand dau, 5, Scholar, b. Goldhanger
John Simmons, grand son, 1, b. Goldhanger



1841 Goldhanger, Essex   HO107 339/1 9 p13

Chaple Street
James Simmons, 38, Ag Lab
Mary Simmons, 35
James Simmons, 14, Ag Lab
Ruth Simmons, 11
Sarah Simmons, 8
Mark Simmons, 6
John Simmons, 3
David Simmons, 1

All b. Essex


1851 Goldhanger, Essex   HO107 1778 644 p23

Church Street
James Simmons, head, mar, 48, Ag Lab, b. Tollesbury
Mary Ann Simmons, wife, mar, 46, b. Little Totham
Mark Simmons, son, 16, Ag Lab, b. Goldhanger
John Simmons, son, 12, Ag Lab, b. Goldhanger
David Simmons, son, 10, Ag Lab, b. Goldhanger
Martin Simmons, son, 7, Scholar, b. Goldhanger
Job Simmons, son, 8 mo, b. Goldhanger


1861 Tolleshunt d'Arcy, Essex   RG9 1091 7 p7

Greenwood? Cottage   [Gooch next door!]
Samuel James Simmons, head, mar, 57, Ag Lab, b. Tollesbury
David Simmons, son, 12, Ag Lab, b. Goldhanger
Job Simmons, son, 10, Ag Lab, b. Goldhanger


1861 Jarrow, River Tyne

Vessel: Eleanor
.
.
John Simmonds, unm, 20, Seaman, b. Goldhanger, Essex



IGI Submitted Record

James Gooch, bap 25 Oct 1804, Little Totham
Parents: James Gooch, Rebecca Cockley

and

James Gooch m. Rebecca Cockley, 27 Jul 1804, Little Totham


Regards   CP

[AMBLY]

Hi (Peter??)

Regarding John & Rebecca's daughter Mary Jane SEMMONS
Mary Jane was born abt 1866 Goldhanger, according to the 1871 Census CP found, with her mother & brother

And I'm guessing of you wondered if this was her marriage - possible to a cousin:
Jun Qtr 1893 Islington - Mary Jane SEMMENS and WIlliam Samuel SEMMENS

Looks like that could be so:

1901: Portsmouth, Southampton
Ref: RG13; Piece: 985; Folio: 74; Page: 4
Address: 154 Guildford Road
Head: Willam S SIMMENS 35, Naval Seaman (worker) b N.K. (not known) London
Wife: Mary J SIMMENS 35, b Goldhanger Essex
Dau: Maud E SIMMENS 5, b Portsmouth Hants
Dau: Gladys M SIMMENS 3, b Portsmouth Hants
(Surname  may look like a bit like SIMMONS, but to me it looks def. like SIMMENS)

BIRTH: Maud Elizabeth SEMMENS - Mar Qtr 1896, Portsea - Ref:  2b 448
BIRTH: Gladys May SEMMENS  - Mar Qtr 1898, Portsea - Ref: 2b 429

I also noticed, that Mary Jane is not on the 1881 (Deptford St Paul, Greewich) with the rest of the family - do you know where she was? Also, I can't find any of them in 1891: do you know where they were? (probably sans Rebecca who  had probably died just after the 1881 Census in Greenwich age 36,  as you noted above)

Cheers
AMBLY

PS: Just found this:
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/SUSSEX-PLUS/2007-01/1168862645
"Mary Jane SIMMONS was born Nov 4 1865 in Goldhanger Essex. She is
not with her parents on [1881 or 1891] and I believe she could be in
service in London.  In 1893 she married a sailor in Islington,
according to the marriage certificate they were living in London Street.
I am also looking for her husband William Samuel SEMMENS born Jan 3
1862 in Southwark Surrey on the 1871/81/91 Census. His parents were
William & Maria SEMMENS, who I found on the 1861 census at Gt Union
Street Southwark"
This was posted in January 2007

[pjaj]

Wow! thank you all very much.

I did some more rummaging around on the web last night and found a bit more information.
Of course Semmens is frequently recorded as Simmons in census records etc.

Job Semmens
I found him in the 1851 and 1861 census just as shown above, but I'm pretty certain he also appears in the 1901 census  as Alfred Semmens in the Parish of St Faith Under St Paul, Registration District London City, sub-district All Hallows Barking. The age is correct (50) and the place of birth. How many Semmens boys were there born in Goldhanger in 1850/1?
There is a separate entry for another "head" of the family at the same address (8a) for Jane Semmens, aged 54, born in St Lukes Middlesex. Presumably this is his wife. There are no other Semmens at this address. Why he changed his name from Job to Alfred I don't know.

As for the Gooch side of the family, Kingsbery seems to be a family name given to daughters. I found another lady in Essex with the name Kingsbery Gouch (can't remember the other given name) but I couldn't prove any relationship to my line.

As for the 1851 census record:

1851 Goldhanger, Essex   HO107 1778 634 p3

Fish Street
James Gooch, head, wid, 46, Fisherman, b. Little Totham
Mary Gooch, dau, 15, b. Goldhanger
John Gooch, son, 12, b. Goldhanger
Rebecca Gooch Kingsbury, visitor?, 6, b. Goldhanger
George Garried?, lodger, unm, 22, Ag Lab, b. Layer Marney?

Maybe Rebecca Gooch Kingsbury should be Rebecca Kingsbury Gooch his daughter or niece?
This is just like my GGrandmother Elizabeth Kingsbery Semmens.
She's the right age, name and birth place to be EKS's mother except that I don't have her with the Kingsbe(u)ry given name.

It would appear that a large number of these people migrated to London, mostly the Rotherhithe / Deptford area in the early 1870s.

I have some more information about EKS and her father John if anyone is interested.

The information you have given ties in with my late Grandmother's recollections of her youth (she was one of  EKS's 7 daughters). Apparently they were sent off in "batches" to holiday with her uncle and aunt in Portsmouth. This would almost certainly be William and Mary. She described him as a civilian foreman in the naval dockyard, which seems to be a logical career progression after leaving the Navy.

I'm now off to piece all this good stuff together in FTM.

Sunday May 6th

I've taken a closer look at some of the 1861 census records.

1861 Tolleshunt d'Arcy, Essex   RG9 1091 7 p7

Greenwood? Cottage   [Gooch next door!]
Samuel James Simmons, head, mar, 57, Ag Lab, b. Tollesbury
David Simmons, son, 12, Ag Lab, b. Goldhanger
Job Simmons, son, 10, Ag Lab, b. Goldhanger

Slight problem here is David. In the 1851 census David is 10 years old.
So either it's a different David  somehow omitted fron the
1851 census or there is some other error.

I have not yet tied the 3 Gooches living next door
at No 45 Greenwood Cottages.
to any of "my" Gooches. They are:

John Gooch b abt.1790 - Gardener Parish Clerk
Elizabeth Gooch b abt. 1795 - Laundress
Norris Gooch b aby. 1843 - no occupation given

They were all born in Tolleshunt Darcy.

[spectrum]

I believe that these posts relate directly to my Great Uncles and Great Grandmother. I have little or no knowledge and have been very inquisitive indeed over the past few months, travelling to London to see where they used to live, Trident Street, Rotherhithe / Bermondsey. I am amazed to have found others with a direct interest - presumably distant cousins!

My mother has done a great deal of looking into this side of the family, Annie Elizabeth was her Grandmother and Ruth Maud was her G.Grandmother. Charles and Robert were Annies half brothers (I think) Robert - my uncle Bob lived at Trident St and died in Ramsgate in 1971, Charles died tragically some years previous. Annie died when I was thirteen in 1977/78.

I know my mother would love to exchange whatever she has on these ancestors of ours

[spectrum]

Hi

Looks like Ruth Maud SEMMONS married John Thomas TAYLOR - as per the ref you gave, in 1893.

The other couple on the page are Oliver STUPPLE and Emily YEO,  who are together with their children in St Olave in 1901  (I also think Emily died in 1905, and Oliver remarried 1907).

So as to Ruth Maud  - is there any chance she also had a daughter named Annie - because this looks like it could be her her in 1901:

1901: St Pauls Deptford, London
Ref: RG13/ Piece 526- Folio 36- Pg 63
Address: 8 Alpine Road
Head: Robert MISSEN 26, marr, Shopman Grocer (worker) b Bermondsey
Visitor: Ruth M TAYLOR 25, b Rotherhithe
Visitor: Annie E TAYLOR 3, b Rotherhithe
Son: Robert E MISSEN 1, b Rotherhithe

And this could be her husband John:
1901: Rotherhithe All Saints, St Olave, London
Ref: RG13/ Piece 400- Folio 270- Pg10.
Saint Olaves Union Infirmary
Patient: John Thomas TAYLOR 28, married, Tin Plate Worker, b Bermondsey

I did notice that on the 1881, she appears to be named as just "Maud", and I looked for a Maud TAYLOR to match in 1901 also, but the above is the best match I could find.

Cheers
AMBLY

This is incredible. I have just chanced across your message. The people you are describing are my own family, Ruth was my Great Great Grandmother, Annie Elizabeth was my G. Grandmother, Bob and Charlie are my Great Uncles - there was another, John Mark Taylor who isn't mentioned, he was nans brother and died in the first world war at Ypres. Incredible stuff for me. I recently felt an overwhelming desire to find out more following a series of dreams about my uncle Bob, I visited the road he lived in, Trident St in Rotherhithe near the Surrey Quays and placed an advert to find out more. What is the connection with you?

My mother has done a great deal of research on these people and would be delighted to share it. I am sorry people if I am repeating myself a bit but I am amazed to find that others are studying the histories of my recent ancestors who I thought were unknown and of no interest to anyone else.

Annie Elizabeth married Stanley Edward Medhurst and they lived at Lower Road I believe, just around the corner from Bob at Trident Street, they went on to settle in Ramsgate, Kent.

[spectrum]

Can anyone provide any further details on the following individuals?
John Semmens B 1839 Goldhanger, Maldon Essex D 1901. Croydon
Married
Rebecca Gouch B 1845 Goldhanger, Maldon Essex D(?) 1881 Greenwich.
Their 4 children were:-
Mary Jane (Married William ?)
John B 1870 in Goldhanger
Elizabeth Kingsbery B 2Q1873 in Goldhanger, Married 18/12/1892 to Henry Wright Ayling, D 24/1/1945 Lewisham.
Ruth Maud B 1876 in Rotherhithe, Married 1893 (St Saviour, Southwark 1d 46) to ?
she had 2 children Bobby and charles.

John's parents were James Semmens B Abt 1803 in Tollesbury, and Mary Ann ? B Abt 1805 in Little Totham. He had 4 brothers Mark, David, Martin and Job.

Apart from Elizabeth (my GGrandmother) I have been unable to track down any B,  M or D records for this group or the names of spouses.


You will see from my overexcited posts that Ruth Maud (your G.Grandmothers sister) is my own mothers G.Grandmother. I recall seeing an old photograph of the dear lady on the hallway wall of Annie Elizabeths house (my own Great Grandmother and her daughter) whenever I used to visit. I believe Mum has the info you refer to.

[pjaj]

So let me try to clarify this a bit. John Thomas Taylor married Ruth Maud Semmens. they had three boys, your G Great half Uncles, Bobby, Charles and John Mark.

Ruth Maud also had a daughter, Annie Elizabeth, your G Grandmother, but presumably John Thomas died and she remarried? Who?

The Semmens and Gooch families all lived in a group of villages (Goldhanger, Tollesbury, Little Totham) near Maldon in south Essex up until the early 1870s. They then appear mostly in the Rotherhithe area of what is now London. One typical example of this is that Ruth Maud was born in Rotherhithe, whilst her three elder siblings (including my G Grandmother Elizabeth Kingsbery) were born in Goldhanger. From there they spread out into other parts of South London. Whilst my Grandmother, Rebecca Eva Ayling was also born in Rotherhithe, my mother was born in Catford and I was born in Eltham.

I have extracted descendant reports for James Gooch and James Semmens, the two oldest ancestors of Ruth Maud. I have privatised them and removed some extraneous data. As a first attempt, I will try to attach them to this post.

If that fails and you or your mother would like to exchange data with me, let me know, and I'll work out some way of doing it either by snail mail or email. We should not post our email addresses on this site for everyone else to see.
NOTE, the attachments to this post are out of date, see further down this topic.