A Real Challenge

[prophetess]

OK I have a Huge Brickwall driving me nuts, and I wonder if any brave folks would like to help, 

My my 2x Great Grandmother Married My 2x Great Grandfather on the 25 May 1874 at Congregational Chapel, Barrow in Furnace, Lancashire, to Daniel Allan ( of Findhorn)
address: 4 Jay Street, Hindpoint, Barrow, Lancashire (Birth place of my Grt Gran) Her Occ was a Weaver,
Her Parents Andrew Robertson and Jane
I know that Andrew Died before Eliza's Marriage, He was a Farmer, his wife Jane (is living with one of her Daughters, Margaret, in Moss-side in one of the census records) birthplace Scotland,  Occ: Formerly Farmers Wife  (Margaret was also born in Scotland )
to Date I have not found them in Scotland,
I have Andrew Robertson Farmer Wife Jane b abt 1822, 2 children Margaret b 1847 Sct, and Eliza b Abt 1853/4 I have not found Eliza on the census she died 1875 at 4 Jay st just after her daughter was born.
I have no idea where in Scotland they came from, and to date have looked on IGI S/P and Census Records
Help is appreciated greatly
Sybil

[rainbowuk]

Hi,

Which census did you get the details of Eliza's parents and siblings from? BMD's only started in Scotland in 1855 so you would only get a parish record of Eliza's birth but if they had any more children after 1855 you would get both her parents full names from that.

If you tell me what census you have and where it was I will try to trace the family in the next census and have a look.

Susan

[prophetess]

Jane is on the 1881, census, with daughter Margaret and her husband William Morrison 1901, Jane age 79, is there with son David  age a Daughter Janie and grandson Joseph Robertson

1871 there is one possible if Andrew was still alive and a seaman in the area, but nothing has yet convinced me of this,  although this same lot appear together in 1891,  and Jane is a widow,

I have Eliza Robertson and Daniel Allan's Marriage Certificate, and Death Cert for Eliza,
Jane there Daughters Birth cert, and Jane's M D certs in Scotland
I assume Eliza was born in Scotland as was her older sister, as yet not found her on any census before her death in 1875.
Daniel also vanished from the face of the earth and Jane in 1881 is living with her grandmother Cathrine Allan in Findhorn Moray,
I know that Daniel ( born+ baptized Donald) was in Findhorn about July 1864, he was a seaman,don't know when he went to the Ulveston area.

I have searched Scotlands People both before and after 1855 for births of Eliza and her sister Margaret, and for a Marriage for Andrew and Jane.

[Gadget]

Hi Sybil

There are two outside possibles for margaret's birth. i've taken the broad Scottish versions of Jane - Jean, Janet, etc:

23 May 1847 to Andrew Robertson and Janet Ireland - Carnbee, Fife

and

19 April 1847 Margaret Proudfoot to Andrew Robertson and Janet Cattancach - Kinfauns, Perth

Can't find an Eliza or Elizabeth to these - would she have possible been born after Jan 1855?

Other thought - given they were Congregationalists, maybe they were non-conformists in Scotland.

The marriage might well have been Common Law.

Regards

Gadget

[prophetess]

Hi Gadget , the 23 May 1847 to Andrew Robertson and Janet Ireland - Carnbee, Fife
Was the most likely i came across,
Eliza's marriage cert says she is 21 Daniel is 32 this was 25th may 1874

Her mother registered, Eliza's death  on 25th April 1875 her age at death 21
So I guess she was not 21 when married or she died just before 22 birthday

now the common law thing  surely they would not be so inconsiderate)

shall i scream now ?
ty i appreciate all the help.

[Gadget]

I presume that you've seen the Kinfauns one on the 1851 census, Sybil

Walnutgrove -  366-1-3

Andrew, 41, rail labourer, b. Abernethy
Janet, 34, b. Kinfauns
Andrew, 8
Mary, 6
Margaret, 4
Duncan, 2

All children born Kinfauns - worth searching for them on the 1861-1871 to discount them if nothing else.

Gadget

[prophetess]

Thanks for that Gadget, I had not came across that one but worth a try, it took &years to track my Grt Grand Mother, don't think i could cope with another 7 to find where they came from.
any suggestions most welcome

[JAP]

Hi Sybil,

Information provided to date (updated in red so all the information is in the one place) seems to be as follows:

The family being sought seems to be:
Parents:
Andrew ROBERTSON (farmer) and Jane (m.s. unknown, born ca 1822 Perthshire Scotland)
Known children:
Janie/Jeanie/JD b ca 1846 Perthshire Scotland
Margaret b ca 1847 Scotland
David b ca 1851 Scotland
Eliza b ca 1853 place unknown

*1874 Eliza ROBERTSON, 21 (address Jay St, Hindpointol, Barrow; father Andrew ROBERTSON, deceased, a farmer) m Daniel (Donald) ALLAN, 32, a seaman from Findhorn, Moray on 25 May at Congregational Chapel, Barrow-in-Furness, Lancashire

*1875 They had a daughter, Jane ALLAN, b Jay St, Hindpointol, Barrow

 1875 Eliza (ROBERTSON) ALLAN, 21 (i.e. born ca 1854), died; informant was her mother Jane ROBERTSON

*1881 Moss Side, Lancashire RG 11/3938/95/11
MORISSON (sic) William, Head, 35, b Ireland, Brewer's Clark
Do Margaret, Wife, 34, b Scotland (i.e. b ca 1847)
Do Joseph, Son, 3, b Moss Side
Do Jane B, Daughter, 6m, b Moss Side
ROBERTSON Jane, Mother-in-law, Widow, 59, b Scotland, formerly Farmer's Wife

(From other threads, it seems that the MORRISON family were in Cheshire in 1891 and in Devon in 1891, that Margaret's age was consistent, and that her birthplace was always shown simply as Scotland.)

 1881
RG11/3887/69/32
1 Dudley St, Stretford, Lancashire
Jeanie ROBERTSON, Head (Daur), Unmarried, 35, born Scotland, (Formerly Farmer's Daughter)
She is the only person in the household.
This could well be Janie/JD.

*1891
5 Dudley St, Stretford, Lancashire. Jane ROBERTSON widow 69 living on her own means born Scotland Perthshire; daughter J D ROBERTSON age 45, born Scotland Perthshire

*1901
The widowed Jane ROBERTSON, 79, is with her son David ROBERTSON and family.  Bishop St (RG/13 3709.) Jane Robertson 79 Widow Born Scotland Living on her own Means; Daughter Janie ROBERTSON 55 single, born Scotland; Son David ROBERTSON 50 married, born Scotland; Grandson Joseph ROBERTSON 18, single

Some questions.
#Can you provide the details of the 1901 census entry - especially the age and birthplace of David.
#Do you have David on earlier censuses (just in case he was born in Scotland and there is a more precise birthplace).
#I note that the daughter of Margaret (ROBERTSON) MORRISON was listed as Jane B in the 1881 census.  I take it that she is the Jane Barclay MORRISON, b Dec qtr 1880, Chorlton.  Do you know whether 'Barclay' comes from William's side or might it be a clue to Margaret's side.
#Do you have Margaret's MC and David's MC - for information on where the marriages took place, and whether they give father as Andrew, and occupation as farmer, and whether he was deceased.
#Do you have the full names of David's children in case there are family names used as middle names (I note from other threads that Jane is the only one of Margaret's children in censuses with a middle name which seems to be a family name.)
#Are there any possible widowed Jane ROBERTSONs age ca 69 (age was 59 in 1881 and 79 in 1901), b Scotland, anywhere in England or Scotland who might be possibilities and might help in the search.

Good luck,

JAP
 

[prophetess]

Hi Jap,
Yes all data provided correct,
I had another look at the 1901, and i am now 100% positive that that is my Jane, she is 79, her Daughter Janie, is 55 and b Scotland, is single not working bye the look of it.
David is 50, b Scotland and showing as married, occupation has score through it and says own a/c
Joseph is aged 18 b Manchester, doesn't seem to be working,

I don't have the marriage certs for Margaret, or David,
so i should also now be looking to find Janie and David on other Census Records.
and see if I can Find Margaret's Marriage .
I have no idea where the Barclay comes from William Morrison was Irish as yet no info on his parents.
Thank you so much Jap for the info on Jane B Morrisons birth I did not have that thank you so much.

I take it that she is the Jane Barclay MORRISON, b Dec qtr 1880, Chorlton.  Do you know whether Barclay comes from William's side or might it be a clue to Margaret's side.

I have copies of the census's if you would like me to forward them to you.
this is verymuch appreciated
Sybil