Will anyone do an archival look-up for me/Luton

[krystalRose59]

It is way back information that I am trying to get. 1600's thru 1747.It is, of a corner property.If my assumption is correct it was part of "Seven Acres"(Marquess of Bute land) at one point. The addresses are 42-44 George Street(which was "Cross Keys Inn") and #32  Wellington Street(bleach house,later changed to #50).In the back of the Inn(I don't know if the bleach house was in the same building as the Inn or separate building in very close proximity).In A2A  online the answer to that question is vague.I am looking to find out what kind of  business the "Tingries" was on the Wellington Street property.I am hoping it was involved with straw hat manufacturing in some way...Names I am hoping to find is  HOOKER...YOUNG....DAY.......
 Thank-You very much

[bedfordshire boy]

The BLARS online catalogue only shows one hit for a search against "Tingries", of which entry you are aware:

"messuage, tenement or warehouse ... in George Street, now in the occupation of Samuel Hooker, many years ago known by the name of Tingries"



Moderator Comment: see also
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,246587.0.html

[johnP-bedford]

Hello krystalrose (or Cindy Young ?)

I frequent the Beds Archives on a somewhat regular basis for BMD searches, but I would not know where to start to look for your request, I would have to ask the search room assistant for guidance.

This you can do yourself by emailing the archives on archive@bedscc.gov.uk & asking your question.

John

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Cindy

I don't think the Cross Keys was 42-44 George St.

The deeds as listed on A2A show clearly:
-  one set of deeds for the Cross Keys 1747-1889
- another set for 42-44 George St 1841-92
- another set for 46 George St

It looks as though the Cross Keys could have been what was number 40 - but in 1747 it was occupied by a basket maker, so may not have been an inn until later. (later - another hit on A2A confirms that the Cross Keys was 40 George St)

All of these deeds were given to BLARS by Marks and Spencer so it's reasonable to assume they all formed part of the M & S store.

The Tingries deeds were a separate lot, but it may be possible to position them by reference to the descriptions of the occupants of the adjoining properties, and by reference to modern maps. These deeds were not given to BLARS by M & S but by a firm of London solicitors, so may not be part of the M & S store. If they were behind/on Wellington St I can't see how they could have been behind the Cross Keys, which was further along George St.

But it seems as though the Tingries block was separate from the Cross Keys, and in different ownership - this block was owned in 1871 by James Burge, and part of it happened to be in the occupation of, ie rented to, Samuel Hooker. Previous owners were Butterfield and the Marquess of Bute.

To get a complete picture it requires going through all the documents in the X858 and X776 sets

You've posted on the Pub History Society board that the Cross Keys was formerly called Tingries. I think this wasn't the case - the two properties were separate as evidenced by the chains of title of the properties. The Cross Keys wasn't on the corner of George and Wellington Sts, but further along.

Regards

David

[krystalRose59]

ready...here it comes(get yourself a cup o' xx)

Thank you all...yes John its Cindy Young
David,Thank-you .... as you can probably assume,I have issues(head-thick as a brick). I have gone over and over the A2A  files.. thank-you very much..I have been trying to get a clear picture(lol) in my head of the immediate area of the Inn.Yes I believe the messuage was melded with Marks and Spencer.I did a google earth search and that is where the address came up..in the middle of cement and trees,in what looks like some sort of mall type, boardwalk.
I have attached a photo of "Cross Keys that was taken 1903, it was demolished in 1906. So there is no way I can ever see the actual structure as it is at present. My mind is a twister one.... If a little information is put in...the same amount spills out.This is a reality I live with for good reason beyond my control..I guess I could read the archive entries forever and still would not get anything out of them(maybe a lil/lot confusion)..I just need someone who knows what they are doing and understand what they are reading,which is not me. I believe I  know where things got all jumbled up..... let me run this by you please?
The Youngs-bleachers,plaiters,bonnet sewers in straw hat industry(fact/s)
The Hookers-heavy straw hat influence but not consistant(collar makers,beer retailers..etc.)
William Day-Hertfordshire-I berlieve was entitled by inheritance,the "Cross Keys Inn"
                      senerio in my head
 Some Young's worked for bleach house (formerly called Tingries")...Wm.Day died 1793/5.At this time his daughter Mary Day (Hooker) inherited Cross Keys Inn.Where some bleach house workers, frequented.Marys daughter Cornelia met one of these "Youngs"(William), married and had children. One of these children (William married Frances Hooker).
                             *************
 Yes I am trying to connect the Samuel Hooker that occupied a cottage behind the bleach house and Mary Hooker wife of Richard.I am trying to trace what seems 2 branches of Hookers, Coenelia Hooker dau. of Richard & Mary, and then Frances Hooker dau of Samuel and Elizabeth(Woodward) Hooker.. As you can see this adds to my already confused state of mind...I am researching "Tingries to see if it was a business that was involved with the straw hat industry in some way(connecting the Young's to the Tingries)...thank-you for your patience... Cindy

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Cindy

I've been trying to see if the two blocks of property - the current Marks and Spencer block which includes the Cross Keys, and the Tingries block - were physically adjoining, but so far without success. Google maps/earth shows that 40 George St was approx 500 ft from the junction of George St and Wellington St. The Tingries block was described in X858as being 10 perches, which I calculate to be 155 ft, but in X858/13 it's described as 35 poles and 23 yds ie approx 650 ft - but whether this was north-south or east west I cannot work out. But as Tingries was said in X858/5 to bound George St and as the deeds don't form part of the M & S block, then I think Tingries must have been a few hundred feet west of the Cross Keys.

Tingries - I can see nothing that links the Youngs to this block. The name is not mentioned at all in the X858 deeds - just Samuel Hooker as occupant in 1871. It's not clear whether or not Samuel Hooker occupied the property at the rear as well, but apart from inference there's nothing to say it was a bleach house or that this was Tingries.

From what I have seen of the Youngs in censuses most were employed in the straw hat industry, in common with most of the inhabitants of Luton, but there's nothing to indicate they worked in or around George St

Samuel Hooker however was a rung or two up the ladder, being a straw hat manufacturer

William Day was described as a yeoman, and so was in a different league. He owned property which seems to have originated from his grandfather, and which devolved to his children

Whether Cornelia Hooker and William Young first crossed love struck eyes across the bar of the Cross Keys while she was pulling him a pint after he'd had a long day bleaching can only be conjecture!

******************************
Trying to link Samuel Hooker of Tingries with Cornelia Hooker - in short, I can't! But I believe they must have been distant cousins:
Cornelia Hooker chr 29 Jul 1784 at Luton, dau of

Richard Hooker and Mary Day who married 5 Oct 1777 at Redbourn Herts

RICHARD Hooker may have been the one baptised 21 Jan 1759 at Caddington, the illegitimate son of Grace Hooker who married RICHARD Cox two months later on 22 March 1759 at Caddington (perhaps having

Samuel Hooker of Tingries was baptised on 7 May 1826, the son of Samuel and Jane Hooker. Samuel Hooker married Jane Prime at Caddington 30 Sept 1822, but I can't work out which Samuel he was.

Frances Hooker baptised 18 March 1810 was the dau of Samuel & Elizabeth Hooker. Samuel was probably baptised in Caddington in 1763, the son of Abraham and Frances.

All roads to lead to Caddington which is why I think they must be linked somewhere in the past.

Regards

David