WILDMAN/TYLER

[shirle]

Can anyone explain to me why the Wildman's changed their names to Tyler in the 1861 Census, and does anyone have any information on James Wildman, father of Thomas.

Marriage at Riseley Parish Church - pg27 No53
Thomas Wildman Full age Bachelor Labourer Riseley James Labourer to
Temperance Symants Full age Spinster Riseley Samuel Labourer

1851 - HO107; 1751; 59; pg2 Riseley
Thomas Wyman, 32, Radwell, Beds
Temperance "     32, Riseley, Beds
Alfred           "       2, Riseley, Beds

1861 - RG9; 985; 19; pg2 Riseley
Thomas Tylor, 42, Bletsoe, Beds
Temperance", 42, Riseley, Beds
Alfred          ", 12, Riseley, Beds
William        ",   7, Riseley, Beds
Samuel       ",   2, Riseley, Beds

1871 - RG10; 1537; 6; pg4 - 22 High Street, Riseley
Thomas Wildman, 52, Bletsoff, Beds
Temperance  "      52, Riseley, Beds
Frederic         "      22, Riseley, Beds
Bela               "      20, Riseley, Beds
William           "      19, Riseley, Beds
Samuel           "      12, Riseley, Beds
Susan             "        9, Riseley, Beds

Can't find Bela in 1861 Census.
No Alfred in 1871 Census but Frederic is same age as Alfred.  I think they are the same person.  Could find no other Census for Frederic or a Death for Frederic.

[bedfordshire boy]

It might be nothing more sinister than an enumeration error
but
there is a baptism on the IGI (extracted so reliable) on 20 Apr 1772 at Riseley of Martha Wildman or Tyler daughter of Edward Wildman or Tyler, so it appears as though there is some sort of precedent (there are 4 other such entries in Riseley, and a number of marriages). Perhaps they used both surnames.

Also in the BVRI there are a number children of Thomas and Temperance who were baptised in Riseley as "Wildman or Tyler"

Have you found the baptism of Thomas?  Bletsoe baptisms/marriages post 1812 are not on the IGI. Another  "but" - there is a Thomas Wildman baptised on 20 Sept 1818 at Harpur St Wesleyan Methodist in Bedford, son of James and Catherine. There's a marriage on 4 Jun 1817 of James Wildman and Catherine Bell at Felmersham which is less than a mile west of Radwell, which is a mile west of Bletsoe. Pure speculation of course, but a Catherine Wildman age 46 was buried at Bletsoe on 5 April 1839. Thomas is the only child of James and Catherine on the IGI - if they were non-conformist it's possible they moved to a different church, and subsequent children were not baptised

In 1841 HO107/8/2 folio 5A
Church St, Bletsoe
James Whildman (indexed as Thoman) 50 ag lab born in county,
living in same house as 6 Whites including Thomas & Jane 40

Living in Bletsoe in 1851 HO107/1751 folio 143B
Jane White head W(id) or U(unm) 50 pauper/lacemaker b Sharnbrook
James Wildman lodger widower 64 ag lab b Riseley
George Wildman lodger marr 30 ag lab b Bletsoe
Ann Wildman lodger marr 36 lacemaker b Bletsoe

In 1861
Bletsoe
George Wildman head marr 40 ag lab b Bletsoe
Ann Wildman wife 46 b Bletsoe
William 9, Joseph 6; John 5, sons all b Bletsoe
James Wildman lodger widower 75 parish labourer b Riseley

See a very long thread on this family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,192610.0.html
- being a contrary sort of person I do not necessarily agree, at least not without further research, that James has a connection to Ravensden. I'm sure when JP reads this he'll chip in with further thoughts!


Regards

David

[johnP-bedford]

Hello Shirley

Hopefully David's finished altering his posting ...

George Wildman married Ann Allen in Bletsoe on 2/12/1850
George died in 1903 age 82 at the Bedford Union workhouse.

His sister Mary Wildman b 1830 married Joseph Partridge on 25/12/1850

Joseph Partridge was son of George P, who was brother to my gt-gt-grandfather Richard P 1792 of Bletsoe 

I have other tenuous links to the Wildman's via Amos Symants - brother of Temperance, who married Thomas Wildman.


Regards John

[bedfordshire boy]

You know what it's like John - you keep finding an extra snippet, and then you find an enormous archived thread! But, yes, I had finished. Thought you were at work anyway which is why I kept fine tuning my post while I thought that no-one was looking!

It seems from censuses as though George was the son of James, and therefore a younger brother of Thomas - have you found any confirmation that he and Mary were children of James and Catherine? That at least would go a long way to tieing in that Felmersham marriage to Thomas

David

I know, now I'm altering this post as well!
This 37 degree sun is addling my brain this afternoon

[johnP-bedford]

The Wildman alias Tyler scenario is not only in Riseley, but in neighbouring Thurleigh. From both these parishes, records have baptisms, marriages & burials in these names & many variants ; WILEMAN, WILLEMAN, WILLMAN, TILER, TILUR; going back to 1649.  Also sometimes reverting to just the one name Tyler or Wildman & then reappearing with the alias.  This cannot be just the transcriber saying this could either be 'Wildman' or 'Tyler' but that the family name was stated with the associated alias.There are cases of a marriage of a Wildman alias Tyler, followed by a burial of the man, followed by a remarriage of the widow which still states Wildman alias Tyler - surely she would have made her bloody mind up by now. I digress !

I did find a marriage in 1812 of a William Wildman alias Tyler of Bletsoe, marrying Susan Fairey - I hope Marlene/Dale may make a comment later when the sun wakes up NZ. 

John P

[johnP-bedford]

David. 

In reply to your question, I think I must have seen the Bletsoe PR at the Archives as I've recorded dates in my extensive family tree. I would not have recorded them otherwise, plus I've found an email sent to Marlene in Nov 2006

I have a Mary W b 1830 who married Joseph Partridge & per the 1850 marriage cert entry for Joseph Partridge & Mary Wildman her father is named as James. Mary Wildman chr 10/Oct/1830 Bletsoe, daughter of James & Catherine ( ? Bell).  On same day were chr  Ann Wildman & Elizabeth Wildman. Previously found chr of George Wildman, son of James & Catherine on 09/JUN/1821

What I haven't seen is the baptism in Bedford of Thomas 1818. Do the Archives have methodist records ?

(just in case you've already read this - this was added later !  )

at the marriage of William Fairey & Mary Chambers, both of Radweill, on 28/02/1813 at Felmersham; the witnesses were Thomas Bell & Catherine Bell.  Marlene ? yes Boycie,,, is this William the brother to Susannah ?


Regardez John

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi John

There's a transcript of Bedford Harpur St Methodist available from BLARS on fiche, so they probably have them on film.

It's all coming together but Thomas's birth/baptism would be useful - John and Catherine of Bletsoe would be a bonus!

I agree with you that Wildman/Tyler is not a transcription problem. Wildman alias Tyler would probably be better

David

[shirle]

As you can see I am getting better at this however I forgot to add that 1841 Census I have a possible for Thomas at Riseley, District 2, Page 2

Thomas Tyler 20 Ag Labourer Riseley born in country

I did think James could be a possible brother to Thomas

Shirley

[shirle]

Thanks David

I have found no baptism of Thomas although my resources are very limited as I live in Australia.  I have Thomas born 1819, using the census information as he seems to be consistant with his age, just not where he is born or his surname.  Your James Wildman and Catherine Bell seem to fit in, an her early death would explain why she is not in the 1841 census

Shirley