Absolutely scandalous ! marriage

[Barbara.H]

oh dear 

Please rock my chair ?

I don't know this expression.. does it mean you want a hug? Here, have a hug! 

The thread caught my eye as I also have Roberts' in the areas of Manchester you mentioned (no connection, but its what made me stop & read the post).
Could you bear to do a brief recap? I fear my suggestion of a marriage in Yorkshire was not terribly helpful, sorry if it added to the confusion.

I would still like to try & help - just to confirm, is your George Roberts the one that on the 1851 census, is living on Back Newberry St, Deansgate, with Catherine Roberts (head), Sophia Kay (widowed daughter) and Maria Roberts (unmarried)? The women all born in Wales and George in Manchester?
So Sophia Kay later marries John Morrison and goes to West Derby to live with her brother Joseph Roberts and family?

I know none of this helps find Sarah Ann, just want to be sure I'm looking at the right chap for George!

Barbara

[JAP]

Hello Barbara,

There have been many threads about this family over the years.  Perhaps the most relevant to the questions you are posing re George ROBERTS might be:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,173367
Also possibly:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,224115
and
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,249176

Regards,

JAP

[Barbara.H]

Phew!! hug for you too JAP! 

I think you are right, there are three searches here that need to be kept separate. This one is about Sarah Ann and her two surnames. But husband George is very mobile, so you have to keep an eye on him in order to keep an eye on her.

I tend to see stuff in pictures which is why I'm so fond of the old maps I guess.. anyway..

Sarah Ann's married life in England centres around Ardwick, which is logical if hubby is a railway clerk. Ardwick is/was a major railway site, both for travel and engineering work.
You can get to Ardwick in a straight line (by road or rail) from Ashton nder Lyne, so I agree that the George Roberts/Sarah Henry marriage in Ashton is the best bet for a marriage, but the Chorlton one runs it a close second.

Given that church marriages often take place in the home parish of the bride, I would start by looking for Sarah Anns called Harrison (or Henry) in the Ashton under Lyne district. For example, there is one at 134 Princess St Droylsden in the 1861 census, father William Harrison.
Free BMDs also have a Sarah Ann Harrison marrying in the Ashton district in September 1863. But they have a transcription error  there and you can't see the bridegroom! D'oh! 

Has any of this been done already? If not, it would be interesting to see whom Sarah Ann Harrison of Ashton married in 1863.

Good luck! (again!!)
  Barbara

[Barbara.H]

Further to the last, I looked the 1863 Sarah Harrison free bmd marriage up and the mis-transcription is that it should be Aston (Birmingham!!), not Ashton. So that's nothing to do with this family. 

Hope that comes as a relief!

  Barbara

[JAP]

Hello Barbara,

An 1863 marriage would be too early.
Sarah Ann (HARRISON/HENRY) ROBERTS was 24 on the 1877 passenger list (an age which fits pretty well with the age of 19 on the 1871 ROBERTS/HENRY marriage).

So the dob of Sarah Ann (HARRISON/HENRY) ROBERTS is ca 1852/3.

On one of the other threads it was suggested that the reason why the marriage took place at St Peters, Ashton under Lyne was because that was the area where George ROBERTS's presumed step-brother William DARLINGTON lived - William lived in Little Moss, Ashton under Lyne in the 1871 census.  A William DARLINGTON was a witness at the ROBERTS/HENRY marriage; the other witness was Thomas TONKS who lived next door to William in the 1871.

It seems that Sarah Ann married as HENRY, her m.s. was HENRY at the birth of her first child, her m.s. was HARRISON at the birth of her next two children, and apparently her m.s. was variously HENRY or HARRISON on many Western Australian certificates.

The challenge is to find out, if possible, why Sarah Ann varied her m.s. between HENRY and HARRISON.

The likeliest 1871 census entry for Sarah Ann HARRISON/HENRY seems (because of other connexions) to be the following (transcribed HARBESON?):
1 Faulkner Square, Manchester
Elizabeth HARRISON head, widow, 49, General Servant & Warehousewoman, born Lancashire Salford
Sarah Ann HARRISON dau, unmarried, 18, waitress, b Manchester
Elizabeth HARRISON dau, 12, scholar, b Chorlton
James HARRISON son, 10, scholar, b Manchester
(Elizabeth jnr m TINKER then OPENSHAW; she has been found as TINKER in 1881 and brother James is living with her.)

However, these people (as HARRISON? as HENRY? as some other name? mistranscribed?) have not yet been found in 1861.

Finding the above family in 1861, if at all possible, seems to me to be an essential step.

Regards,

JAP
PS: It would also be useful if the HENRY family mentioned in the PS to my reply #13  could be found in the various censuses - if only to rule them out (or in!) ...
James HENRY m Elizabeth WILLIAMS 1848
Thomas HENRY bap 1851
Sarah Ann HENRY bap 1853
Mary Jane HENRY and Elizabeth HENRY both bap 1863
All Manchester Cathedral

[SheilaM]

Hi Ladies

It would also be useful if the HENRY family mentioned in the PS to my reply #13  could be found in the various censuses - if only to rule them out (or in!) ...
James HENRY m Elizabeth WILLIAMS 1848
Thomas HENRY bap 1851
Sarah Ann HENRY bap 1853
Mary Jane HENRY and Elizabeth HENRY both bap 1863
All Manchester Cathedral

I hope I'm not muddying the waters even more but could this be the above family in 1851.  It's taken from the unfilmed 1851 census.

Piece HO107/2227 Page 34

53 Gt Mount St., Deansgate

Hannah Williams 50, widow, Charwoman, b Manchester
Elizabeth Henry 25, dau, M, Calico Weaver, b Wales
John Henry 8, G/son, b Manchester
Thomas Henry 3m, G/son, b Manchester

Sheila

[JAP]

Hi Sheila,

Great!  Definitely food for thought!

Thomas HENRY, son of James HENRY & Elizabeth (probably m.s. WILLIAMS) was bap Jan 1851 so that's a good fit.

And John HENRY could be a pre-nuptial child of James & Elizabeth?

And, of course, nothing is ruling this census lot, or the IGI lot (who might be one and the same) out or in for Kimberley's people ...

JAP

[Kimberley]

Hello Barbara,

An 1863 marriage would be too early.
Sarah Ann (HARRISON/HENRY) ROBERTS was 24 on the 1877 passenger list (an age which fits pretty well with the age of 19 on the 1871 ROBERTS/HENRY marriage).

So the dob of Sarah Ann (HARRISON/HENRY) ROBERTS is ca 1852/3.

On one of the other threads it was suggested that the reason why the marriage took place at St Peters, Ashton under Lyne was because that was the area where George ROBERTS's presumed step-brother William DARLINGTON lived - William lived in Little Moss, Ashton under Lyne in the 1871 census.  A William DARLINGTON was a witness at the ROBERTS/HENRY marriage; the other witness was Thomas TONKS who lived next door to William in the 1871.

It seems that Sarah Ann married as HENRY, her m.s. was HENRY at the birth of her first child, her m.s. was HARRISON at the birth of her next two children, and apparently her m.s. was variously HENRY or HARRISON on many Western Australian certificates.

The challenge is to find out, if possible, why Sarah Ann varied her m.s. between HENRY and HARRISON.

The likeliest 1871 census entry for Sarah Ann HARRISON/HENRY seems (because of other connexions) to be the following (transcribed HARBESON?):
1 Faulkner Square, Manchester
Elizabeth HARRISON head, widow, 49, General Servant & Warehousewoman, born Lancashire Salford
Sarah Ann HARRISON dau, unmarried, 18, waitress, b Manchester
Elizabeth HARRISON dau, 12, scholar, b Chorlton
James HARRISON son, 10, scholar, b Manchester
(Elizabeth jnr m TINKER then OPENSHAW; she has been found as TINKER in 1881 and brother James is living with her.)

However, these people (as HARRISON? as HENRY? as some other name? mistranscribed?) have not yet been found in 1861.

Finding the above family in 1861, if at all possible, seems to me to be an essential step.

Regards,

JAP
PS: It would also be useful if the HENRY family mentioned in the PS to my reply #13  could be found in the various censuses - if only to rule them out (or in!) ...
James HENRY m Elizabeth WILLIAMS 1848
Thomas HENRY bap 1851
Sarah Ann HENRY bap 1853
Mary Jane HENRY and Elizabeth HENRY both bap 1863
All Manchester Cathedral

As I may .or may not have mentioned previously !

I have m/c for a James HENRY 30 to Elizabeth WILLIAMS 26 - 13th Nov 1848 - Manchester.

James' occupation - Weaver residence at marriage 9 Fix? Street - father Andrew HENRY - Soldier.

Elizabeth WILLIAMS - spinster - 23 Hunt? Street - father Hugh WILLIAMS - Sailor................witnesses John HENRY & Mary HENRY

[Kimberley]

Hello Barbara,

An 1863 marriage would be too early.
Sarah Ann (HARRISON/HENRY) ROBERTS was 24 on the 1877 passenger list (an age which fits pretty well with the age of 19 on the 1871 ROBERTS/HENRY marriage).

So the dob of Sarah Ann (HARRISON/HENRY) ROBERTS is ca 1852/3.

On one of the other threads it was suggested that the reason why the marriage took place at St Peters, Ashton under Lyne was because that was the area where George ROBERTS's presumed step-brother William DARLINGTON lived - William lived in Little Moss, Ashton under Lyne in the 1871 census.  A William DARLINGTON was a witness at the ROBERTS/HENRY marriage; the other witness was Thomas TONKS who lived next door to William in the 1871.

It seems that Sarah Ann married as HENRY, her m.s. was HENRY at the birth of her first child, her m.s. was HARRISON at the birth of her next two children, and apparently her m.s. was variously HENRY or HARRISON on many Western Australian certificates.

The challenge is to find out, if possible, why Sarah Ann varied her m.s. between HENRY and HARRISON.

The likeliest 1871 census entry for Sarah Ann HARRISON/HENRY seems (because of other connexions) to be the following (transcribed HARBESON?):
1 Faulkner Square, Manchester
Elizabeth HARRISON head, widow, 49, General Servant & Warehousewoman, born Lancashire Salford
Sarah Ann HARRISON dau, unmarried, 18, waitress, b Manchester
Elizabeth HARRISON dau, 12, scholar, b Chorlton
James HARRISON son, 10, scholar, b Manchester
(Elizabeth jnr m TINKER then OPENSHAW; she has been found as TINKER in 1881 and brother James is living with her.)

However, these people (as HARRISON? as HENRY? as some other name? mistranscribed?) have not yet been found in 1861.

Finding the above family in 1861, if at all possible, seems to me to be an essential step.

Regards,

JAP
PS: It would also be useful if the HENRY family mentioned in the PS to my reply #13  could be found in the various censuses - if only to rule them out (or in!) ...
James HENRY m Elizabeth WILLIAMS 1848
Thomas HENRY bap 1851
Sarah Ann HENRY bap 1853
Mary Jane HENRY and Elizabeth HENRY both bap 1863
Address on b/c of Mary Jane HENRY was No1 Passage,Lower Btrom Street Manch
All Manchester Cathedral

I have Baptism records for Sarah Ann HENRY born 10th Sept 1852 dau of James & Elizabeth HENRY (James recorded as Cotton Twister)

James & Elizabeth HENRY may also have had dau born 10th Sept 1858(bap 4th Oct 1863..Henry recorded as a "Beamer"

Also bap of Mary Jane HENRY  born 14th July 1863 dau of above....(bap 4th Oct 1863)

Mary Jane HENRY died 28 July 1867 aged 5 years.
Address on d/c was 1 East Street Manchester