Suicide - what happened to daughter?

[janwbay]

Hi there

I have an intriguing mystery which I hope some of you will also find intriguing.  I hope you can help me solve it.

I am looking for information on Agnes Fisher born St. Quivox 1848.  Lived with parents John (1811 Glasgow) and Agnes Wren or Rann  (1810 St. Quivox)  and brother John Fisher (1835 St. Quivox). 

Mother Agnes died in 1852 and father John remarried.  Can't find any record of the marriage.

In 1859, the father John Fisher killed himself in a bizarre way.  See item from Ayr Advertiser.  Selfishly, he involved his daughter in his death.  I have just found out these facts, and feel very angry at him, as she could have found his body, and for involving her.

In 1861 census, Agnes (1848) is living in the Industrial and Ragged School, 34 Carrick Street, Ayr.  We can find no trace of her after that.

Her father had a brother, name unknown, but may have been Walter.  He was at their house the night before the suicide.  Thanks to Scully on this forum, we know that the son John, erected a stone in Wallacetown Cemetery to his mother and father, but did not mention Agnes.  Maybe the family blamed her for her involvement (quite unfairly as she was only a child).

Why did she not go and stay with the uncle or brother and family?  Why did she end up in the Ragged School?  What happened to her after that?

We cannot find a marriage or death.  I have searched the emmigration records, but can't find an entry which I can be sure is her.

Would anyone have any ideas as to where we can look, or any records which they can look through to see what happened to her.  We are stumped.

The information which we have has largely been given by people on this forum, and we are extremely grateful for this.

I hope you can come up trumps again.

regards
Janice

[ev]

hi janice 

found this -

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=O38741

ev

[janwbay]

Hi Ev

Thank you very much for that link.  I have emailed the NRA, and will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again
Janice

[ev]

hi janice

hope you find something
my g grandmother was in an orphans house in dundee and my father
went to the central library and was able to access lots of info. about her
parents , date of entry , leaving date and following employment
all for free 
sometimes the gods are on our side 

ev

[janwbay]

Thanks for your kind thoughts.
Janice

[janwbay]

Hi here Ev.

Thanks for your help.  Just to let you know how we are getting on in our search.  This is the reply from the National Archives of Scotland.

Our ref: NAS4/AB3/248.3

Dear Ms ****,

Thank you for your e-mail relating to the records of the Ayr Ragged and Industrial School.

The records of the above school were listed by the National Register of Archives for Scotland when they were in a lawyer’s office in Ayr in 1957 (NRAS183). Sadly our information is that these records were destroyed when the basement of their offices was cleared nearly 40 years ago. I realise this will be disappointing news for you.

Ayrshire Archives do hold a minute book of the school for the period 1851-1870 (ref: CO3/10/2) and it would be worthwhile your contacting them as they may have knowledge of other sources held locally. The contact details are:

Ayrshire Archives
Ayrshire Archives Centre
Craigie Estate
Ayr
KA8 0SS

I will follow up this lead, however, have been told that I should wait until they are in their new building.

****************************************************
You will be pleased to know that we have now found Agnes Fisher in Glasgow.  She married aged 42 to a John Norval, who is listed as a bachelor. 

Agnes died aged 65 in 1913.  We still have no clue as to where she was between the ages of 12 and 42.

We are still hoping to find some records of the Ragged and Industrial School and would be grateful for any ideas, anyone has, which could help.

Thank you
Janice.

[mewren]

Hello Janice,
Your great, great, great grandmother, Agnes Rann (Wren) is the sister of my great, great great grandfather, William Rann (Wren), born 1791, and christened 5 Sep 1791 at St. Quivox and Newton Parish.  The Agnes McNinch, aged 15, shown in the 1851 Census, as noted by John, is the daughter of John McNinch and Janet (akas Jean) Rann (Wren), sister of your great, great, great grandmother.  The History of the Wren Family, starting with William Rann (Wren), husband of Agnes Kerr, is documented at link http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH15&CISOPTR=81866&REC=4, although your great, great, great grandmother is there referred to as the authors unmarried Aunt Nancy.  The author of that document, John Y. Wren, delivered the document in 1896, and was only 10 years old when his mother emigrated to Nova Scotia in 1832.  This means he would have been less than 10 when he last saw his unmarried Aunt Nancy, who wasn't married to John Fisher until 1834.  This means we are 5th cousins.  Hello cousin!  I have not yet identified the burial location of William Rann, or his wife Agnes Kerr, if you happen to identify that location.  Moreover, while I have suspicions that the parents of Agnes Kerr might be William Kerr and Agnes Pollick, but do not have any confirmation of this.  Finally, I am searching for the ancestors of William Rann (Wren), born in England about 1766.  Any information you could supply would be greatly appreciated.  I would gladly share information regarding your Canadian and US cousins. 

Best regards,
Marshall

[janwbay]

Dear Marshall

"Hello cousin"  I am absolutely delighted to her from you.  I have printed off the information you sent me re the Wren family and its brilliant, isn't it.  Very, very interesting. 

I am not sure where they got the idea that William Wren came from England, but of course, they may be correct.  I had nothing to suggest where he came from and assumed he was from Ayrshire.

I will check what you have sent against what I already know, and be back in touch again.

Best Wishes
Janice

[mewren]

Hello Janice and any other members of the Wren-Kerr descendency.  As any genealogist, I am always looking to go backward in my family, but I am also interested in coming forward as well.  William Wren (Rann) and Agnes Kerr had 8 children being as a previous writer stated William (my 3rd great grandfather), Susanna (married Alexander Savage), Jean (married John McNinch), Gilbert (akas Culbert or Cuthbert) (married Janet, akas Jennie, Hay), George (married Menah Cuthill), Thomas (married Janet Love), Agnes (appears to have died young), and Agnes (akas Nancy) (married John Fisher).  I progress to various levels of descendancy on each of these with the exception of George Wren and Menah Cuthill, for whom I have no marriage or children identified other than a great nephew's statement in 1896 that George and Menah were married before leaving Scotland for Nova Scotia, Canada in 1832.  I would be interested in corresponding with anyone regarding any of these persons with a complete willingness to share accumulated data.  My personal email address is (*).

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