Marriages By Proxy - Help Please

[Rowan Tree]

Hi All,

I'm wondering if anyone can help me on the subject of marriages by proxy?

My granddad, Arthur Robert Moore, was a soldier during the 1930's and 1940's.

I believe my granddad married my nana, Hilda Jackson, "by proxy" while serving in Gibraltar.

I'm hoping to learn more about soldiers (and couples in general) who married by proxy during the 1930/40's.

Can anyone reading shed any light or suggest a source of information?

One thing I'm particularly interested in is the documentation / record side of things. Do any records survive at GRO, or elsewhere, of proxy marriages? Would my granddad and/or nana have been issued with a marriage certificate and if so am I able to obtain a copy? Also, would the marriage have been legal or would they have had to marry again, officially, so to speak?

I know my grandparents went on to have a church marriage in 1942 - which would have been after the proxy marriage but how long after I'm unsure. The church marriage took place at St. John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire while my granddad was on leave. The story goes that he got one of his brothers to wright that his mum was at deaths door, thus enabling my granddad to get compasionate leave, come home and marry. My great-grandma, I might add, was perfectly fit and well an went to live on for another 31 years  .


Many, many thanks for reading. Best of Wishes, Rowan Tree 

[stanmapstone]

Marriages taking place under United Kingdom law are not valid if they are by proxy. However, United Kingdom law may in some circumstances consider a proxy marriage to be valid if both of the partners are ‘domiciled’ in a country which recognises marriages by proxy.

Stan

[Rowan Tree]

Marriages taking place under United Kingdom law are not valid if they are by proxy. However, United Kingdom law may in some circumstances consider a proxy marriage to be valid if both of the partners are ‘domiciled’ in a country which recognises marriages by proxy...

Hi Stan,

Thanks for your post. I understand the law today is as described above but I'm wondering if things were differant during WW2. Was special dispensation granted to soldiers in active service for example?

As for where my grandparents were domiciled... My nana was in Lancashire and my granddad in Gibraltar so if the law in the 1930/40's was exactly as it is today then a marriage by proxy would not have been recognised. Which brings me back to the question of law during the 1930/40's and special dispensation for soldiers.... Hmm...

Anyone know how things stood in the 1930/40's?

I know this is a tricky one. I've already spoke with my local registry office who didn't know the answer. I'm hoping someone reading will have come across a proxy marriage in their own family or have memories of something like this actually taking place in the 1930/40's. I know it's a long short but I thought, nothing ventured, nothing gained, and got posting.

Best of Wishes, Rowan Tree 

[alpinecottage]

In both 1915 and 1941, questions were asked in Parliament about the law being temporarily changed to allow marriages by proxy, if for example a soldier was posted away and couldn't get to the prearranged wedding ceremony.  On both occasions, the prime minister of the day was not too keen and on both occasions, the question was referred to other departments, where it seems to have been quietly filed under B for bin!

google Soldiers + marriage by proxy to see the Hansard records.

[stanmapstone]

From "The Times" July 1941;
"There is no evidence of any widespread desire in the Forces for facilities for marriage by proxy, and there is no present intention to introduce legislation of this kind. A Bill which the Government propose to introduce after the recess relates solely to personnel  of his Majesty's Forces stationed in this country, and is designed to meet some of the difficulties which arise when members of the Forces who have made arrangements to get married are moved at short notice or are unable to get leave."

Sept 11th 1941;
"The Bill provides that, if a man or woman serving is certified to be unable to go to a place in England or Scotland where he or she has arranged to be married, the marriage may be solemnized in any other building in England where marriages may be lawfully solemnized, or celebrated by a minister in Scotland, or contracted in a Scottish Registry Office. The marriage of a serving man or woman may take place during the war at any period within one year after the complete publication of the banns or after the grant of a licence."


Proxy Marriage were never made legal.

Stan

[Little Nell]

Proxy marriages did take place - but this was centuries ago for foreign princesses before they ever set foot here in Britain, although Colin Chapman does cite military service as a reason for a proxy marriage.  However, he gives no insight into the law during the war.  Would the government/army have had time to deal with such things as dispensations when they were fighting a war?  No idea.

The answer is to get the certificate and see what it says!  If no mention of by proxy, you have your answer.

Nell

[stanmapstone]

Marriage by Proxy was common among the Royal Families of Europe for example. Henry VIll married his fourth wife, Anne of Cleves, by proxy in 1540 and in 1673 James 11 (when Duke of York) married Mary of Modena this way. Charles I and George IV also celebrated proxy marriages.


Stan

[stanmapstone]

 Would the government/army have had time to deal with such things as dispensations when they were fighting a war?  No idea.

See the quotes from The Times 

Stan

[Rowan Tree]

Hi Stan, Nell and alpinecottage,

Thank you all for your posts. This really is quite intriguing to me. It is looking like proxy marriages were not legal and did not take place, which makes me wonder about the story my granddad told me.

Just to clarify = I do have an original marriage certificate for my grandparents dated 28/03/1942. I've also got photographs taken on the day and can be absolutely sure both the bride and groom were present. However, my granddad told me he married by proxy before this date which is what I'm trying to investigate. He told me he got married twice to my nana, the first time by proxy and the second time in a church in the regular way.

If proxy marriages weren't legal and didn't take place I'm wondering what my granddad was referring to 

Both my grandparents have passed away so I'm unable to ask them more about the story of the proxy marriage. However, my mum and uncles were also told the same story and it's just something we all took for granted. It's starting my family tree which has got me wanting to learn more and it's tuning into a greater mystery than I'd anticipated.

Hmmm, I need to mull this one over. Any more thoughts/suggestions anyone?

Best of wishes, Rowan Tree