Author Topic: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco  (Read 1920 times)

Offline jj.carroll

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Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« on: Sunday 08 August 10 00:26 BST (UK) »
In another thread located on the County Louth and County Tyrone boards for Ireland, “Carrolls and McCarrolls – where to start,” Tony found a comment about my grand parents’ marriage and most likely came up with something that we have been searching to fill some gaps. 

My grandfather was Michael Joseph McCarroll, and he was born in Corkhill, County Tyrone, in 1879.  He left Ireland around 1899 for San Francisco to join his brothers Thomas and Patrick. He became a “Carroll” in America. He may have been a saloonkeeper.

My grandmother was Agnes Bridget Gaffigan. She was born in San Francisco, California in 1889 to John Gaffigan and Maggie Crennan.  Somehow Aggie and Mickey met in San Francisco.  A lot of the records we would normally rely upon burned in the San Francisco Great Earthquake and Fire of 1906, more devastating than Dublin’s Four Courts disaster.

The next thing we “knew” was that they got married at St. Patrick’s in Dundalk, County Louth, July 29, 1912 (and NO! it was not a shotgun marriage as my father was their oldest child and he came in 1914).  I have been puzzling about how and when, and where, they met and traveled, then tied that knot because St. Patrick’s was not either one’s church.

Then Tony came up with an arrival, that happened three days before that marriage, and it looked like a piece of the puzzle might be falling into place. A Miss Agnes Gaffigan, a U. S. citizen, had left the states on the Celtic and disembarked at Queenstown, July 26, 1912. She was listed as being 23, which was close to my grandmother’s birthday. We have no idea of how she traveled to Dundalk, or if this was my grandmother – but it surely does seem so.

I asked Tony if Michael had traveled with her, and his answer was negative.  Then he found a “Michael Joseph Carroll,” a saloonkeeper (which he was, at least after that, and brothers and cousins were also publicans) had arrived in Liverpool in 1908 on his way to Ulster – but his recorded age was ten years off (listed as being 39, while he was 29). That would have eliminated him; but then it could have been a scrivener’s error.

We did not treat it as a recorder’s error (and you know that does happen with these things) so we had to dismiss this at this time.  But, when had Michael McCarroll returned to Ireland?  We know that he may have been here before Agnes, but have not found any record of his coming home, or where he might have been staying in County Tyrone.

Now, I have been thinking about this and would raise these issues.  We do know that Patrick, (his brother, born 1873 in Corkhill), traveled frequently between San Francisco and the Fintona and Eskra areas, probably going through Cork’s port Queenstown.  Could this have been just a visit by Michael, and possibly one made with another brother?  That is, if there was a mistake made regarding his age (it was only off one digit, not just 10 years!).

We have been unable to find just what Michael and Patrick did for a living in America (Thomas, another brother was busy raising a family in San Francisco, having married Catherine “Kitty” Daly from Newtownsaville). But they did have money, they traveled, and it did not come from farming. I know, there are such things as legacies.

These are the types of questions we must ask ourselves and others (if living) who possibly might know, if we are to unravel some of the mysteries of our ancestors.

If anyone on the this board has any clues to this mystery I would really be happy if you could share them.  By the way, another Carroll, Honora or Nora, married a Hounihan of Donaghmore; she was a great, great grandmother on my mother’s side.  But they ended up with the Gaghans in Wisconsin.  Funny how these things get mixed up.
Carroll, McCarroll, McCusker and McCosker from County Tyrone. Then there are Dillen for Derry, Gaffigan, McGaffigan, Crennan, and Amos.  Now adding: Leonard, Berry, and Gahagan from Strokestown, County Roscommon, also Gahigan, Hounihan, and Whonohan and another branch of Carrolls from County Cork.

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 08 August 10 02:37 BST (UK) »
If you have not previously searched San Francisco Directories, this is a link for them:
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sf/sfdata.htm#sfdirs

If you need any help with street names and neighbourhoods, I may be able to help you, as I lived in San Francisco for many years.

Other online information which may be helpful:
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sf/sfdata.htm
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 08 August 10 03:17 BST (UK) »
Again, you most likely have this information, but in 1910 Michael J Carroll, age 31, born Ireland, was employed as a Merchant, Grocery.  He was living with his brother, Thomas, as well as others.  (San Francisco)

The address appears to be 526 or 516 1/2 Central, which is near the Panhandle.  (I see that you lived in San Francisco at one point.)  I had never heard of Central and when I checked a map, I was surprised to see that it is four blocks away from where I lived for a few years.  There were some beautiful Victorian houses in that area.

Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 08 August 10 03:24 BST (UK) »
The 1910 San Francisco Directory shows a Michael J Carroll (Carroll Bros) residence 51 or 31 Central Av.  Thomas Carroll (Carroll Bros) was living at 516 1/2 Central.

Perhaps Carroll Bros was a shop?

http://www.archive.org/stream/crockerlangleysa1910sanf#page/391/mode/1up
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)


Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 08 August 10 03:35 BST (UK) »
1913 Directory:
Carroll Bros (T and M J) groceries, 1698 Hayes
http://www.archive.org/stream/crockerlangleysa1913sanfrich#page/412/mode/1up
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline jj.carroll

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 08 August 10 14:32 BST (UK) »
;D Thank you Lisa,

After all of these years you have found some things that I had overlooked.  Like the one of his brother Thomas having the shop.  Never had run across that.  The things are in place, like the name and age, and the brother.  So, my grandfather wasn't, at least at that time, working in a saloon.  It would come later.

I had actually started going through the directories and had stopped at the Hayes Street one, wondering if that was my great Uncle Tom.  They had three children, two of them went into religious life with Helen going to the Madams of Sacred Heart (later changed the Madams part, but still they had Lone Mountain and the Sacred Heart Academy) and Joe, or Pat - depends on whether you were in or out of the family.  Father Joe was a Jesuit, the secretary to the Provincial and later Father Rector up at USF.  In later days he was the Chaplain at Santa Clara and one of the chief fund raisers, going with Henry Dolger in his yacht to the Med and making sure he had a Papal visit (good for a wing on the men's dorm).  He was a graduate of the Jesuit's Rome Academy, and quite connected with the Papacy.

We now know they were in San Francisco, but Agnes was about ten years younger and she lived in the Noe Valley - a little way off of that Central Avenue market.  There were lots of streetcars in those days, and Central is "central" to Golden Gate Park. Wonder just how she met Mickey, and how they got married.  It is a mystery that I would like to unravel before I go  ::).
Carroll, McCarroll, McCusker and McCosker from County Tyrone. Then there are Dillen for Derry, Gaffigan, McGaffigan, Crennan, and Amos.  Now adding: Leonard, Berry, and Gahagan from Strokestown, County Roscommon, also Gahigan, Hounihan, and Whonohan and another branch of Carrolls from County Cork.

Offline jj.carroll

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 08 August 10 15:04 BST (UK) »
:o I note that the market was T and MJ; that would be for Tom and Michael Joseph.  At least they were partners and later Mickey would become a publican and merchant in a small little market town close to where he was born, in Fintona, County Tyrone, Ireland.

He was in California for about 12 or 13 years, and with his failing health he returned to Ireland.  He had a public house on the main street of Fintona, and ran an auctioneering out of the back.  He also had a little room where he sold shoes, and even had a coffin sales.  His family was raised in the upstairs, and he passed away from complications brought about from the flu.
Carroll, McCarroll, McCusker and McCosker from County Tyrone. Then there are Dillen for Derry, Gaffigan, McGaffigan, Crennan, and Amos.  Now adding: Leonard, Berry, and Gahagan from Strokestown, County Roscommon, also Gahigan, Hounihan, and Whonohan and another branch of Carrolls from County Cork.

Offline jj.carroll

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 08 August 10 16:20 BST (UK) »
You know this has opened a new quest.  If you recall I posited that Michael and Agnes were in Ireland in July of 1912, getting married and settling around Fintona.  They may even have been in Omagh or Beragh after getting married, because I have no idea when he took up residence in Fintona.

But in the 1913 Directory it still shows that Tom Carroll's grocery store was named T and MJ, for Michael Joseph.  That places the transition around that time and could not mean that Mickey had immigrated back to Ireland in 1908.  But he may have visited. 

 :-\ When did he arrive in Ireland?

We know that Agnes Gaffigan did not travel with him on her way to get married.

 8) Oh well, back to the grinding of the old mill.
Carroll, McCarroll, McCusker and McCosker from County Tyrone. Then there are Dillen for Derry, Gaffigan, McGaffigan, Crennan, and Amos.  Now adding: Leonard, Berry, and Gahagan from Strokestown, County Roscommon, also Gahigan, Hounihan, and Whonohan and another branch of Carrolls from County Cork.

Offline jj.carroll

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Re: Carrolls, McCarrolls and Gaffigans - San Francisco
« Reply #8 on: Monday 09 August 10 23:49 BST (UK) »
Lisa, a little more about Central Avenue in San Francisco - turn of the century.

If you start with the front, or beginning, of those directories you will find a listing of the streets and the cross streets according to the number or the address.  In this instance, Central goes from Lyon to Cavalry Cemetery.  The 500 block is just at Hayes Street, and that is where the Carroll Brothers was located.

It is not just a short block down from Buena Vista, but a central street before the close of those cemeteries and the rise of Geary Blvd.

The 516 address is more likely the correct one and should probably be used.  That is because the 1600 Hayes is right around the corner, and that is the way it should be for a grocer.
Carroll, McCarroll, McCusker and McCosker from County Tyrone. Then there are Dillen for Derry, Gaffigan, McGaffigan, Crennan, and Amos.  Now adding: Leonard, Berry, and Gahagan from Strokestown, County Roscommon, also Gahigan, Hounihan, and Whonohan and another branch of Carrolls from County Cork.