Kilquade Death Puzzle.

[Palmira]

 :)I have a D/C for a great-uncle Robert HELMAN, who died in 1876 at Kilquade, Co Wicklow.  Both his parents were deceased and he was only nine years of age at death.

The D/C states the informant as John METCALF, who made his mark.  Robert's two younger brothers, Richard and James Henry  aged 8 and 6 were somewhere in Ireland at the times.  As John METCALF is not a relative,I have always been puzzled as to where the boys were.

Is it possible there was a Home for destitute children in Kilquade at that time?

A sister Rebecca died in Drogheda, Co Meath in 1883, aged 11 years, and she was with her elder sister Emma when she died.

Is Drogheda any where near Kilquade?

The two brothers Richard and James Henry both survived to adulthood and both appear on the 1891 for UK.  Where they were and with whom from 1875 to 1891 no one knows.

Any help or guidance on how to proceed from here would be greatly appreciated.

Merry Christmas to all you poor people freezing in the cold snap.

We in Australia are having very mild simmer weather at the moment although rain is forecast for Christmas Day.

Cheers   

Palmira in Australia

[shanew147]

I have a D/C for a great-uncle Robert HELMAN, who died in 1876 at Kilquade, Co Wicklow....
A sister Rebecca died in Drogheda, Co Meath in 1883, aged 11 years, and she was with her elder sister Emma when she died.
....
Is Drogheda any where near Kilquade?
...

cant be of much help on most of your questions... but one easy one I can answer - Kilquade is not near to Drogheda.

Kilquade is just over 40km south of Dublin City in Co. Wicklow and Drogheda is about 50km to the north of Dublin City on the Meath/Louth county border. Both locations are on, or near, the coast.

from a very cold and snowy Dublin..


Shane

[shanew147]

:)I have a D/C for a great-uncle Robert HELMAN, who died in 1876 at Kilquade, Co Wicklow.  Both his parents were deceased and he was only nine years of age at death.

The D/C states the informant as John METCALF, who made his mark.  Robert's two younger brothers, Richard and James Henry  aged 8 and 6 were somewhere in Ireland at the times.  As John METCALF is not a relative,I have always been puzzled as to where the boys were.
.....

Just wondering why you suspect that Richard and James were not at the address at the time of death ?

Children would not usually be informants on a registration.

 

Shane

[LH]

www.familysearch.org lists:
William Robert Helman and wife Rachel Hill having a number of children, mostly in Co Laois - but one in Wicklow and I wonder if this is your Kilquade, Co Wicklow, connection. 
Children listed include
William Robert b 18 Oct 1867 at Laois
Richard b 21 Dec 1868 at Ballinakill, Laois
James Henry b 16 Feb 1870 at Ballinakill, Laois
Rebecca Jane b 10 Dec 1871 at Ballinakill, Laois
George b 8 Aug 1873 at WICKLOW.

I wonder if the William Robert who was born 1867 is the Robert you refer to?  The age would fit.

A look through church records might prove helpful.

Cheers

[shanew147]

following on from the details' LH posted, there's a possible death for mother Rachel in 1874, in the same year (and consecutive register pages) as youngest son George in the same district : 

 Name: Rachael Helman
 Registration District: Rathdrum
 Event Type: Death
 Year: 1874
 Age : 34  (est year of birth : 1840)
 Volume : 2 / page: 825

 Name: George Helman
 Registration District: Rathdrum
 Event Type: Death
 Year: 1874
 age : 0   (est year of birth: 1874)
 volume : 2 / page : 826


Shane


p.s. see also earlier thread in the Dublin section on William Robert Helman & Rachel Hill

[Palmira]

Shane and LH,

Many thanks for your replies.  Yes this is my family and I already have all the information you are suggesting; and yes the thread you mentioned was initiated by me as well.

My inquiry came about as I struggled to understand what happened after the death of Rachel in 1874 and of William Robert (the Father) in 1875.  Yes the Robert I mentioned is William Robert (the son).  The eldest surviving child from William Robert's first marriage was Emma Elizabeth who soon after this time (1879) was married to Isaac BINGHAM, and living in Dublin in 1879; Co Meath in 1883, when Rebecca Jane die aged 11 years; and Milford in Co Donnegal, in 1886.

Rebecca Jane, Robert (William Robert) who died in Kilquade in 1876, and George who died in 1874 in Co Meath, still had two other brothers Richard and James Henry (my grandfather) who were only youngsters and orphans and I was trying to establish some sort of reasonable explanation as to where they were and with whom.

I know it seems complicated (and it is), but also rather puzzling and therefore challenging to know whether the boys were in a home or with their elder half-sister. I knew my grandfather James Henry HELMAN personally and he had a very distinguished and precise English accent.  As I said previously he and brother Richard HELMAN both turn up on the 1891 UK census, leaving a gap of some years between the death of William Robert (The son) and 1891.

Perhaps it is a mystery never to be solved.

I have greatly appreciated and benefited from RootsChat in the past and just thought I would give this idea a run.

Thank you both for replying and a very Happy Christmas.


Palmira  (Ken) in Australia

[shanew147]

I wonder would it be worth trying to locate any details of the informant on that death cert to check his residence, occupation etc ?

When both parents of some of my ancestors died the children (aged between 3 and 11) didn't end up in an orphanage but lived with relations. It took a while but I was eventually able to connect these relations by following the lines further back.


Shane

[LH]

Hi Palmira

Firstly, Happy Christmas to you and yours from Very Snowy Ireland.

Do you know what religion these folk were in the 1870s?   I would suggest checking the Parish Registers (if they exist) and look outside the name Helman.  See if John Metcalf appears in records for other folk, suggesting a generous religious person, maybe connected to the church.

If the family was CoI, a look through the relevant Vestry Book might show whether money/clothes had been given to the family in their time of need.  I have come across this before.

Kilquade would have been a area with very few residents (still is) so it should be easy enough to track the Helmans back to the 1870s.... a mystery waiting to be revealed!

Cheers