John LAUGHLAN

[Gypsydescendant]

Aa ha now I get it possibly getting the the parish records may be doable
Thank you for your help I will now go down the path of parish records thank you once again

[judb]

The public tree has an attachment of a copy of the marriage certificate of John LACHLAN and Jane RAYNER.  This copy was issued in September 2011 by NSW Registry.

The marriage took place in the Church of St John the Baptist, Mudgee, according to the rites of the Church of England , officiating minister: James Gunther, 30th March 1865.  The consent of William RAYNER, the brides' father, was given as she was under 21.  John signed and Jane made a cross; the witnesses' names are very hard to read - I think it is John Tormey and Maria Tormey.  The spaces for parent details are bank.

I think Gypsy has this certificate but thought it may be useful to post the details.  It's looking as though the church records may be the only way to go - unless the 1902 death turns up trumps.

Judith

[wivenhoe]

"..Jane Rayner died in USA in 1929 "

What is the story about Jane's life away from Australia?

When did she arrive in US, are there other family with her at the time?

What is on her death certificate?

 

[majm]

Hi there,

I have had a look at the online image of that mc for 1865.   It seems to have been cropped around the margins, so I cannot confirm, but I think it is one of the many that have not been reconciled by NSW BDM....    I think the surname of the witnesses could also be deciphered as Tooney or Toovey ...  I'll check some electoral roll entries for Mudgee etc.

In around 1912,  NSW BDM staff reconciled quite a number of the pre 1895 marriage records, and thus those reconciled certificates include that clerical activity, it is usually noted on the outside of right hand side's margin,  ie to the right of the "father's occupation" column.

I am attaching a snip of an image of an edited m.c.  BLUE lines inserted where edits have removed names of people.   RED lines inserted where the usual BLANKS for NSW BDM certs that are NOT YET reconciled.  RED elipse for the usual position of NSW BDM markings showing that the church registers were accessed and the information in columns 5, 7, 9, 10 were obtained from the church register and the date that occurred and then the various clerks (three or more) each check, double check etc and initial.

I hope I am not violating copyright by inserting this image.

Cheers,  JM 

[majm]

Hi there,

If the bride, Jane Rayner had been 21 when marrying, then she would not have required consent to marry, and thus the mc would not have included her father's name in central section.   

But he was William Rayner, a Farmer and most likely he was at McDonald's Creek  because ....

NSW ER 1870 MUDGEE

William RAYNOR (with an "O") residence McDonald's Creek
William RAYNOR, junior, residence McDonald's Creek

There were also chaps surnamed RAYNOR nearby :
Robert with freehold at Pinebone, William with freehold at Pinebone
James, residence at Barragon
Henry, residence at Guntawang
and at Triangle Swamp there's 3 .... James, senior, with freehold; James junior residence; and John with freehold.
and at Sawpit Gully there's William and Thomas, both with freehold
and at Mullamuddy there's Samuel and Robert, both with freehold 

Cheers,  JM  (off to look for likely surname for the witnesses !)

[majm]

Witnesses surnames possibilities:

NSW 1870 ER MUDGEE

No surnames commencing with TR on the roll

Between the surnames of Tompson and Towels there are:

TOOMEY,  James, residence Church St (one of the main thoroughfare streets in Mudgee, very long street)
TOONEY, William, residence Market St (another main street)
TOONEY, John, household, Mortimer Lane  Fingers crossed this could be the witness.....

PS, another way to tell if the mc has been reconciled, will be in the handwriting...  the elusive blank columns will be in a different handwriting, and perhaps the signatures of the bride, groom and witnesses will be in their own hand rather than in the handwriting of the clerk who transcribed the information into the NSW BDM register.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi there,   

The mc I have looked at shows the marriage was 30th March 1865, not 20th .... only important if you are to follow up with seeking help with the parish records (either at the church which is still well used, or by the family history group if they have transcribed those 1865 local parish records)

And, there's also a question as to the spelling of the Rev'd .... the Walter Samson & Co., New South Wales National Directory 1867 - 1868 has : 
Guntler, Rev J, Church of England clergyman, Mudgee ....  I read the mc as Gunther, but I can often be mistaken, specially with "l" and "h" in that older style of handwriting ....

Cheers,  JM

[judb]

I am positive the mc shown has date as 30 March.

As to the spelling of the clergyman - austcemindex has a photo of a memorial to Archdeacon James Gunther at St john's Mudgee, died 1879.
http://www.austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=6416495

(No RAYNERs, LACHLANs or TOOM(N)EYs at Mudgee on that site.)

On the public tree is an image of an article from The Mudgee Guardian, dated June 2 but unfortunately no year shown, on the RAYNER family - two brothers William and James who arrived in NSW 1837? from Bury St Edmunds, with wives and 7 children between them.  They settled and farmed with a COX family and then in the Mudgee district, and produced more children - William and Mary Ann had 13 altogether.  The article gives the name of a person who is researching the family - happy to PM if you would like it.

Cheers, Judith

[majm]

Hi All,

  Looking to place this particular McDonald’s Creek circa 1865
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/65461502  7 May 1864 Bell’s Life in Sydney and Sporting Chronicle

"The mail from Windeyer to Mudgee was stuck up last week by two armed men, near McDonald's Creek, and robbed of everything. Thc mail was in charge of a boy, who was told by the robbers to lie on the ground while they proceeded to overhaul and rifle the contents of the bags.  The police went in pursuit of the robbers, but ....."

  Looking to find the Drover or his parents in or around Mudgee, c 1864
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60555924 26 September 1864 Empire
The Empire has an extract from the Mudgee Liberal (newspaper) with a list (across part of 2 columns) of free selections made at Mudgee up to Sept 9th, 1864 for the previous 14 months ...  I can read RAYNER, RAYNOR, but none with Laughlin or variants (not even Mc L ...)

As the groom was noted to be a Drover, it is possible his base was not in the Mudgee district....


  Thinking about how to keep some pennies back for Gypsy’s travels

A way to avoid spending lots of pennies would be to purchase the transcript of just the one birth cert ie try for the youngest of their NSW born children....  It should list the names and ages of all the living older siblings, and note any who had not survived, at least by gender.   That b.c. would also give you the then occupation of John, and the family’s then address, and the then ages of the child’s parents (ie the then ages of the couple who married at Mudgee 30 March 1865), to help confirm at least the age of the groom.

Transcription Agents ... quicker, cheaper, direct to your email inbox .... links on the NSW resources board here at RChat :  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html


Cheers,  JM