Help with family missing in 1851 and 1841

[littleem1906]

Hi

I have in my tree a John Henry Stanley (1881-?). I know from his son Albert Edward Stanley's marriage certificate that he was a wire cleaner.

I found him and his family in the 1911 and 1901 census. Details as follows;

1911 - 8 Marton Place Nechells Park Rd, Birmingham
Head - John Henry Stanley - 30 ('ware' cleaner) Born - Birmingham
Wife (of 10 years) - Annie Stanley - 30 (house keeper) Born - Aston, Warwickshire
Son - John Stanley - 10 (school) Born - Birmingham, Warwickshire
Son - Albert Stanley - 8 (school) Born - Ladywood, Birmingham
Son - Harold Stanley - 7 (school) Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Mary or May Stanley - 1 - Born - Birmingham

6 children born alive, 4 living, 2 dead.

1901 - Aston, Birmingham
Head - Josiah Stanley - 22 (Brass founder) Born - Birmingham
Wife - Louisa Stanley - 21 Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Elsie Stanley - 1 Born - Birmingham
Boarder - John Stanley - 20 (wire cleaner) Born - Birmingham
Boarder - Anne Stanley - 19 Born - Birmingham
Boarder - John Stanley - 3 months Born - Birmingham
(My assumption is that John and Anne are married and John is their child).

I tried to find my John Henry in 1891 and I found this;

1891 - Red Lion 'beerhouse', 72 Duke Street, Aston
Head - John Stanley - 42  (brass worker and publican) Born - Birmingham
Wife - Mary Jane Stanley - 40 (no occupation) Born - Birmingham
Son - Albert Henry Stanley - 6 (school boy) Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Harriet Stanley - 18 (iron hinge puncher) Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Ada Stanley - 15 (unreadable) Born - Birmingham
Son - Josiah Stanley - 13 (scholar) Born - Birmingham
Son - John Stanley - 10 (scholar) Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Maud Stanley - 8 (scholar) Born - Birmingham

This means that Josiah from the 1901 census is the brother of my John Henry (who keeps being put as just John in census).

Again my John appears in 1881 with his parents;

1881 - 96 Duke Street, Aston
Head - John Stanley - 33 (Brass dresser) Born - Birmingham
Wife - Mary J Stanley - 34 Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Emma Stanley - 12 (scholar) Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Mary J Stanley - 10 (scholar) Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Harriet Stanley - 8 (scholar) Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Ada Stanley - 5 (scholar) Born - Birmingham
Son - Josiah Stanley - 3 Born - Born - Birmingham
Son - John H Stanley - 4 months - Born - Birmingham

Looking now at the family in earlier census before my John Henry was born, they appear in 1871;

1871 - 5 Court 2 House, Birmingham (unreadable street)
Head - John Stanley - 21 (brass founder) Born - Birmingham
Wife - Jane Stanley - 21 Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Emma Stanley -2 Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Jane Stanley - 1 month - Born - Birmingham

I know that the father John Stanley married Mary Jane Parker in 1867 so I had to find John in 1861 as a child with his own parents.

I believe this to be the right family;

1861 - 15 Court 3 (unreadable street), Birmingham
Head - Isaac Stanley - 50 (carter) Born - Birmingham
Wife - Mary A Stanley - 39 Born - Birmingham
Son - Isaac Stanley - 15 Born - Birmingham
Son - John Stanley - 11 Born - Birmingham
Son - Henry Stanley - 9 Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Esther Stanley - 4 Born - Birmingham
Son - Alfred Stanley - 2 Born - Birmingham
Son - Matthew Stanley - 8 months - Born - Birmingham

My problem is finding this family in the 1851 and 1841 census and also finding the Mary A who Isaac Stanley married.

If anyone can help I would be very grateful.

Emma

P.S. Sorry for the long winded message but I thought it would help to give all the background and census records.

[JenB]

HO 107 / 2057 / 48 / 13

4h 21/2 ct Baggot Street, Birmingham

Isaac Standley, head, mar, 33, Carter, Warw^sh. Knowle
Mary A. do, wife, mar, 28, do Birm.
Isaac do, son, 5, scholar, do do
John Standley, son, 2, do do
Emma do, daur, 4m, do do
George Whitehead, son in law, 12, do do

[littleem1906]

Thanks Jen but which census is this?

[littleem1906]

I take it by looking at Isaac junior's age that this is the 1851 census. Why is Isaac senior's age so out! He was 50 in 1861 and now 33 in 1851?

[JenB]

Thanks Jen but which census is this?

1851

People were often very vague about their age! It's also possible that what he wrote on  census form was mistranscribed by the enumerator.

[JenB]

1861 - 15 Court 3 (unreadable street), Birmingham
Head - Isaac Stanley - 50 (carter) Born - Birmingham
Wife - Mary A Stanley - 39 Born - Birmingham
Son - Isaac Stanley - 15 Born - Birmingham
Son - John Stanley - 11 Born - Birmingham
Son - Henry Stanley - 9 Born - Birmingham
Daughter - Esther Stanley - 4 Born - Birmingham
Son - Alfred Stanley - 2 Born - Birmingham
Son - Matthew Stanley - 8 months - Born - Birmingham

The 1861 address is Staniforth Street.

I think Isaac and Mary are still there in 1871

RG 10 / 3118 / 63 / 15

11 Court 2 house, Staniforth Street, Birmingham

Ioice Stanley, head, mar, 60, Carter, Warwickshire ??Olyslan
Mary Ann do, wife, mar, 52, do Birmingham
Alfred do, u, son, u, 11, scholar, do do
Albert do, son, 8, do

1881 Census, they are back in Baggot Street, which is where they were living in 1851.

RG 11 / 3001 / 47 / 33

10 Court 5 Baggot Street, Birmingham

Isaac Stanley, head, mar, 70, gun worker, Warwickshire Lexham/Loxham
Mary A. do, wife, mar, 57, do Bham
Albert do, son, 27, do, do do

Death of Isaac Stanley - 4q 1882, Birmingham 6d 112

[JenB]

Isaac Standley, head, mar, 33, Carter, Warw^sh. Knowle
Mary A. do, wife, mar, 28, do Birm.
Isaac do, son, 5, scholar, do do

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WAR/Knowle/index.html

[littleem1906]

Thanks again Jen!

Any luck with 1841? I'm still not finding it!

I have also been trying to find the baptism of Issac (around 1811).

I found 2 Isaac Stanley's on FamilySearch.org who were baptised in Warwickshire in 1810/11. The most promising one is this one;

Isaac Stanley
Baptised 29th Dec 1811, Honily, Warwickshire
Father - Matthew Stanley
Mother - Elizabeth
(Parents living in Wroxall)

This one is most promising for 2 reasons. First, Wroxall and Honiley are only 5 miles from Knowle (where Isaac claims he was born in the 1851 census). Secondly, his father's name is Matthew and Isaac had a son called Matthew. I know that names were often passed down though the generations.

[JenB]

Here's a possible marriage for Isaac and Mary Ann
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2SH-G3V
(4q 1842, Birmingham 473)

To verify you'd really need to get the birth certificate for one of their children which will give Mary Ann's maiden name.

Then you could get the marriage certificate which would verify the name of Isaac's father.