Martha Leigh (Benge) North Cray

[Deirdre784]

Hi, hope it’s OK to post on another board - I've come to a temporary halt on Cope/Hackney in Staffordshire and am waiting for certificates for Griffiths/Owen in Pembrokeshire, so am working on my husband’s tree.

Just wondering if anyone has any views or ideas on the following. We’re looking for information on WALTER ROBERT LEIGH, my husband’s great great grandfather. A few weeks ago we found a birth record for a Walter Robert  Leigh, born in St George’s Southwark in Jan 1845, and an 1851 census record with his mother MARTHA LEIGH in North Cray, Kent.

We then found an 1861 record for Walter (age 16) in St Mary Cray (birthplace strangely listed as Wales), but couldn’t find anything else for him until his marriage record (which we are almost 100% happy with) in Brecon (Wales) in 1876. His son Thomas Henry Leigh (my husband’s great grandfather) was born in Dec 1880, also in Brecon, followed by 2 more children. But we couldn’t find anything to link the Walter Robert in Kent to the one in Brecon, so were wondering if it was the same person. But last night we found a reference to him being in the army and moving to Brecon, so presumably that is why he appears to be missing in 1871 and 1881 (he died in March/April 1891).

With the idea that he might be the one we were looking for after all, we looked further into his family, and discovered in the 1851 census that his mother Martha was a widow aged 25, with 6 children, 2 born in Bristol – when she was 12  and 14 (and we have since confirmed this with a birth and christening record for 1826) – then 2 in Southwark when she was 16 and 19, and 2 in North Cray at 22 and 23.

In the 1861 census she is listed as married (still called Martha Leigh and no resident husband) and has a further 3 children. By 1871 she is again widowed, but living with her mother, and another 2 children (one only a few months old), plus a 13 year who wasn’t living with her in 1861. And a further 2 children by name who possibly have different names in 2 censuses….. 

 We have found census records for Martha in 1881, 1891 and 1901 before her death in 1909 at the age of 83. Finding the 1871 record with her mother (Sophia Benge)was a great help, but has added to the mystery as we have found an 1841 census record where Martha (Benge) is living at home in North Cray with her parents at age 15 (3 years after she is listed as having the 1st of her children!).

We cannot find one marriage record for Martha, let alone two. And can’t understand how she could possibly have 2 children at such a young age in Bristol, and another 2 in Southwark before going back home for the rest of her life. And apart from the listed birthplaces for the 4 oldest children, there is nothing to suggest she ever left North Cray. How did she survive with all those children?  And live to such a great age?

Apologies for a probably confusing post. Fascinating stuff, though I don’t know if we will ever find the answers. All we can think is that maybe she was married to the father of the 2 children born in Southwark, who had previously had the older 2 children, he then died and Martha took them on and referred to them as her own?  Any other suggestions welcome.

[AMBLY]

Hi Dierdre

  Quite OK to have more than one Rootschat pot on the boil at the same time!!  (as long as the the pots aren't cooking the same thing unbeknownst to the us pot boiling watchers 

For Reference (for us looking around):
Census 1851: Footscray Bridge, North Cray, Bromley, Kent
HO107 / Piece: 1606 / Folio: 557 / Page: 11
Head: Martha LEIGH 25, wid, Domestic, b North Cray
Son: John  -"- 13, At Home, b Bristol, Somerset
Dau: Elizabeth -"- 11, At Home, b Bristol, Somerset
Dau: Mary Ann -"- 9, At Home, b Boro of Southwark
Son: Walter LEIGH  6, At Home, b Boro of Southwark
Dau: Ann LEIGH 3, At Home, b North Cray Kent
Son: Thomas LEIGH 2, At Home, b North Cray Kent

Census 1861: Bridge Road, North Cray, Kent
RG 9 / Piece: 464/ Folio: 7/; Page 12
Head: Sophia BENGE, 60, widow, Retailer of beer, b Peckham, Kent
Gr-Dau: Ann Sophia BENGE 13, Scholar, b North Cray
          Then next but one is:
Head: Martha LEIGH 35, mar,  Simstress, b North Cray
Son: Thomas LEIGH 11, Paper factory boy, b North Cray
Son: Alfred LEIGH 5, n North Cray
Dau: Florence LEIGH 3, b North Cray
Dau: Julia LEIGH 10 mths, b North Cray

Census 1871:  North Cray,
RG10 / Piece: 877 / Folio: 6 / Page 3
Head: Sophia BENGE 71, b Manchester
Dau: Maria? LEIGH 42, widow, Charwoman, b Footscray
Son: Alfred LEIGH 15, b Footscray
Son: Henry LEIGH 13, b Footscray
Dau: Rose LEIGH 11, b Footscray
Dau: Martha LEIGH 3, b Footscray
Son: Albert LEIGH 6mths, b Footscray

Census: 1881:Cottage, North Cray
 RG11 / Piece: 859 / Folio: 19 / Page 16
Head: Alfred LEIGH 25, unm, Ag Lab, b Footscray,
Boarder: Julia LINES 41, wid, Charwoman, b Footscray, plus her 2 children.
  Then enumerated next:
Head: Martha LEIGH 51, wid, Nurse, b North Cray
Dau: Minnie LEIGH 13, Scholar, b North Cray
Son; Albert LEIGH 10, Scholar, b North Cray
Mother: Sophia BENGE 87, widow, b Manchester
Plus 2 Boarders
   The enumerated next"
Servant in Charge: Florence LEIGH 23, unm, Laundress, b North Cray
Boarder: Rose LEIGH 21 unm, Laundress, b North Cray
Boarder: Kate REYNOLDS 17. unm, Laundress, b Eyns ford, Kent


Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

The following 2 baptisms for her youngest  two @ per  1851 Census.
http://www.kent-opc.org/Parishes/PRTranscripts/Cray%20North%20Bapt181381.html

Ann Sophia LEIGH,
 chr 9 Apr 1848, North Cray Kent, abode North Cray
Parents: Richard LEIGH, Engineer & Martha

Thomas LEIGH
chr 30 Sep 1849, North Cray Kent, Abode Foots Cray
Parents: Richard LEIGH Engineer labourer & Martha

And then, on same site, these two are her two youngest children from the 1871/1881 Census:

Martha Louisa BENGE, chr 25 Feb 1868, mother Martha BENGE, of Footscray, Northcray, Spinster - With a note referring to the mother saying:  " NB this woman has previously been entered as Martha LEIGH. It has been ascertained that she was not married H.W.J "

Albert BENGE, chr 4 Apr 1876, mother Martha BENGE of Footscray, N Cray Parish, Spinster (a late christening as he was on the 1871 Census)

Then found the following - could be the Richard in from question above:
http://www.kent-opc.org/Parishes/PRTranscripts/Cray%20North%20BurB.html
DEATH:
Richard LEE buried Footscray, 16 March 1851, age 32

Then found: this 1842 one in London Baptism records,  who looks like the 9 year old as per the 1851 Census.
Mary LEIGH  born 26 Jul 1842, Christening on 4 Dec 1842 at  Southwark St Saviour, Surrey, abode: Great Guildford Street,
Parents: Richard LEIGH, Engineer & Sarah

So your theory, that Martha has taken on children of her 'husband's" by his prior marriage - looks very much a possibility...?

Cheers
AMBLY

[Deirdre784]

That's amazing, thanks. Just read this on my phone - can't access rootschat in work - and will look properly tonight.

Sounds as if Martha may not have been Walter's birth mother, or the other 3 born away from North Cray, but the previously unknown Richard may have been his father. Definitely another certificate to order - I'm making a list! Can't afford to buy them all, but the certs for all the children should make fascinating reading. 

Parish registers and local knowledge are a great help. Thanks again. Can't wait to get home now!

[Deirdre784]

Then found the following - could be the Richard in from question above:
http://www.kent-opc.org/Parishes/PRTranscripts/Cray%20North%20BurB.html
DEATH:
Richard LEE buried Footscray, 16 March 1851, age 32

Then found: this 1842 one in London Baptism records,  who looks like the 9 year old as per the 1851 Census.
Mary LEIGH  born 26 Jul 1842, Christening on 4 Dec 1842 at  Southwark St Saviour, Surrey, abode: Great Guildford Street,
Parents: Richard LEIGH, Engineer & Sarah

I think we're making progress now.

The Richard Lee death looks good thanks; I've found a matching FreeBMD death record for Richard Leigh, March quarter 1851.

I have just found a marriage (on FamilySearch.org) for a Richard Leigh to a Sarah White on 10 April 1837 at St Cuthbert's in Wells. Can't find a birth or baptism record for John, the oldest child, but have a Baptism for Elizabeth Caroline at St George's, Brandon St, Bristol in 1840.

The 1842 Baptism, looks good too thanks. Where can I find those records as I'd like to look for Walter Robert's (both births recorded in Southwark). This would probably confirm that Richard and Sarah were the parents of the 4 oldest children I had listed as Martha's.

Have found 2 possible death records for Sarah, both in June quarter 1845 (Walter Robert was born in March quarter 1845).... Sarah at St George's Southwark, and Sarah Caroline at St George's Hanover Square. Neither are the same as the Southwark baptism though, but the Sarah Caroline one looks good given that the 2nd child was Elizabeth Caroline. 

If Richard then married Martha and they had 2 children before Richard died (Ann Sophia and Thomas), then that sorts out the top half of the extended family. Still can't find any marriage record for Martha Benge, to Richard Leigh or anyone else. 

I've also found a birth for a Richard Leigh in 1849 in Bromley which sounds as though it should belong to them but no baptism, and can't find a death record either. Given the times, I guess there could be several children who never appeared on a census as they were born and died between 2 censuses.

Will carry on looking but great help so far. Thanks a lot.

[AMBLY]

Hi

BURIAL: Parish of Christ Church, Southwark Surrey
June 11th - Sarah LEIGH age 28, of Hill St, St George the Martyr

Possible CENSUS 1841, for Sarah & children - but no Richard!
Town - Parish of Chewton Mendip, Wells, Somerset
HO107 / Piece: 939 / Book: 3 / Folio: 2 / Pg 16
//
John H----H? 30, Gate Keeper - Y
Mary H----H? 25 - Y
/
Sarah LEIGH 25 - Y
John LEIGH 3 - Y
Elizabeth LEIGH 1 - Y
//

It's entirely possible Walter was never baptised... Or for example (like Albert) was but years later, and maybe not even in Southwark. His Birth Certificate I think may be your best bet to determine his parentage (and the address on his birth cert may be the address of Sarah LEIGH in above Burial, too - 2 birds, 1stone, hopefully!

I also found a birth registration for Julia/Rose I think (same person)
And I wonder, if  "Henry" on the 1871 is some inexplicable error by the enumerator, and in fact this was supposed to be "Florence"?

These are the 11 (12?) children so far identified with Martha at various times:
John LEIGH b abt 1838 Bristol
Elizabeth LEIGH b abt 1840 Bristol, ?Chr as Elizabeth Caroline, Bristol -  Richard & Sarah
Mary/Mary Ann LEIGH b 1842, Chr 1842 Southwark St Saviour - Richard & Sarah
Walter Robert LEIGH b abt 1845 Southwark
Ann Sophia LEIGH  chr 1848, North Cray - Richard & Martha
Thomas LEIGH b abt 1849, chr 1849, North Cray - Richard & Martha
Alfred LEIGH b abt 1856, Footscray
Florence LEIGH b 1858 North Cray
? Henry LEIGH b abt 1858 North Cray (but I do think this might be Florence)
Julia Rosenia LEE b 1860, registered Bromley Sep Q 1860
Martha Louisa BENGE (Minnie) chr 1868, Footscray, mother Martha (spinster)
Albert BENGE b 1871, Chr 1876, Footscray, mother Martha (spinster)

The christenings of Martha's last 2 children 1868 & 1871, as BENGE - says she a Spinster, and moreover was not married to LEIGH, despite having had prior entries in the 'books" under LEIGH. Not sure if this is note on the actual record, or a modern indexing note? Suspect the former, somehow?

It does look as if she has had 3 separate relationships & not married to any of the men involve

A merrily woven web 


Cheers
AMBLY

[Deirdre784]

Cheers Ambly,

That's fascinating and a great help. How do you do it? I realised at 1am this morning that I'd been 'playing' with my family trees for 9 straight hours, more than I'd been in work

Mind you, while looking for Somerset parish records to see if I could progress the Richard Leigh & Sarah White link (found the wedding on familysearch.org, and possible parents married at the same church), I found a set of Catholic baptism records which included my 2nd great grandfather (and 9 siblings) and an earlier marriage which has changed my 3rd great grandmother! My lot, and Sarah and the 2 children lived less than 3 miles away from each other in 1841.

Will definitely get Walter Robert's birth certificate asap. Hopefully now it will confirm his parents as Richard and Sarah, and we might get a clue about Richard too (nothing on him yet re age or where he comes from).

I guess Richard could be in the army in 1841? We think - awaiting confirmation - that that's why we can't find Walter Robert in any census after 1861 (married in 1876, had the first of his 3 children in 1880, died in 1891).

Given the burial record for Sarah with her age recorded, I've found a Christening record for her at St Cuthbert's in Wells (where she and Richard were married). Quite a few churches in Southwark though.

I've found a birth record for Martha Louisa Leigh which matches the Martha Louisa Benge as christened and a marriage record for Martha Louisa Leigh. Would she officially be Leigh despite her christening?

Fascinating idea that Henry could be Florence. Can't find anything else for him.

My tree has had quite few changes over the last gew days, so many thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

Deirdre

PS How do you enter the census data in the post? I'm been using Ancestry and FindMyPast and neither produces the info like you enter (I'm assuming you don't type it all in!).

[Deirdre784]

In case anyone is interested, the story of the Walter Robert Leigh of this post continues here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,590648.0.html
Deirdre

[Deirdre784]

Hi

BURIAL: Parish of Christ Church, Southwark Surrey
June 11th - Sarah LEIGH age 28, of Hill St, St George the Martyr

It's entirely possible Walter was never baptised... His Birth Certificate I think may be your best bet to determine his parentage (and the address on his birth cert may be the address of Sarah LEIGH in above Burial, too - 2 birds, 1stone, hopefully!

Ambly,

To finalise the above, I've had Walter's birth certificate this morning... born (as suspected) to Richard (engineer) and Sarah Leigh (formerly White) at 17 Hill Street, St George the Martyr. So the right Sarah's death too, thanks.

I think that just about sorts out Walter's early days, and presumably with the wedding certificate we had listing his father as Richard Leigh deceased engine fitter, confirms that the Walter born in Southwark is the same Walter who married in Brecon and is therefore my husband's gg grandfather. We can't find any confirmation that he joined the army - other than his wedding certificate which says he was a private 24th foot - nor, as yet, any reason why he appears to have been living under a different name in 1881 and 1891 census. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,590648.0.html But that may well be a mystery we can never solve.

Thanks again for your help,

Deirdre