Author Topic: It pays to complain...  (Read 2388 times)

Offline Clare Fowler

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It pays to complain...
« on: Saturday 30 July 05 14:02 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I just wanted to let you all know that it is definitely worth complaining to scotlandspeople if an image you have downloaded is illegible.

I had an image which I had downloaded a few weeks ago, but hadn't had a proper look at until this week.  When I had a look at it, it was very difficult to read.  So I went onto the site and clicked on Contact Us, and followed the instructions for notifying about an illegible image. 

I received a very quick response from them with the following having been actioned...
1. My credits for viewing the image had been credited to my account
2. Because my time on the site had expired, my reapplied credits reactivated the account, and this time I had 336 hours to use them rather than 168 hours.
3. I was informed that a photocopy of the document would be posted out to me - within 2 days I had an A4 and an A3 copy of the certificate i had tried to view.

I think this is excellent customer service on their part and that you really cannot ask for a better response than that!  I was very pleasantly surprised.

So - don't suffer in silence if you cannot make out an image from scotlandspeople, they will help you out.

Cheers,
Clare
ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire
BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow
CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow
And many, many more...

Offline ibi

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Re: It pays to complain...
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 30 July 05 16:00 BST (UK) »
A word or two of explanation will help here!

When General Register Office Scotland started out on the DIGROS project, - Digitisation of the Records of Scotlands People, - more than a decade ago (and don't ask what happened to the "P", - I have no idea  :-), they were faced with some interesting choices in terms of digitisingthe statutory BMD records.

The main choices were...............

(a) work from the existing microfiche, accepting the quality of the microfiche, and set up the scanner for a batch of microfiche rather than altering settings for each microfiche, or even parts of microfiche.  Advantage: cost only £a ("£a" = a few 100k, maybe even £1.??m).  Disadvantage: A number of the digitised images would not be of acceptable quality.

(b) as (a), but optimise the scanner settings per fiche or even part-fiche.  Advantage: many fewer low quality images.  Disadvantage: cost now between 5 x £a to 10 x £a; but still a proportion of images of unacceptable quality due to the quality of the original microfiches, some of these deriving from the deterioration, for various reasons, of the original registers.

(c) work from the original registers, optimising the image for each register page.  Advantage: very few low quality images.  Massive disadvantage: Cost now anything up to 25 x £a; plus considerable concern on the part of the responsible GROS archivist in relation to the effect of the required handling process on the older registers.


The economics of the DIGROS project only made sense if option (a) was selected.  And the whole self-funded DIGROS project (no outside involvement such as GSU) only went ahead on the basis of The Scottish Office consideration of the proposal, as The Scottish Office was, at the time, taking it on faith that there would be a worthwhile ancestral tourism spin-off.

But GROS then accepted when the images originally went on line via ScotsOrigins that there would be a number of customers dissatisfied with the image that they had purchased, so set up a system to deal with this, as evidenced by what Clair found to be the case above.

Incidentally, initially, several years' marriage register images were initially withheld, as a proportion of the digitised images for these years were of such bad quality that GROS considered it to be counter-productive to put these on-line, with a later refilming of the years in question to follow at some future date.

I understand that, following representations from the ScotlandsPeople User Group, that these images were eventually put on line, following the major power loss problem at ScotlandonLine some months ago, when all the SP images had to be reloaded, and these few years' images were not then deleted for the ScotlandsPeople site.  The UG apparantly argued that, as a proportion of these images were perfectly satisfactory, that the full years' images should be put on line.

As unsatisfactory images are identified, there is a GROS programme to refilm/digitise these, but this programme has to compete for resources and finance with many other GROS demands on the resources involved, so that it will be quite a few years before the situation is reached where there are no images of unnaceptable quality on the ScotlandsPeople website at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , or its successor, as the contract comes up for extension/renewal in the not too distant future.

Were GROS to have only initiated a DIGROS project today, then the tremendous advance in digitisation technology of the last decade or so would have meant that there would have been nothing like the same proportion of images of unacceptable quality, but that has to be regarded as a "council of perfection", and I'm sure that there are 100,000s of researchers out there who are very thankful for the decisions taken by GROS and The Scottish Office over a decade ago.

I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that there is another country in the whole world that can match the on-line indexes and digitised images of Scotland .........

In case anyone, and very sadly, there are such people out there, who see me as an apologist for GROS, ScotlandonLine, and ScotlandsPeople, the simple answer is "No way!!", - there are few more merciless and unrelenting critics than me, but in a wholly positive sense, of the policies and activities of GROS in relation to the ScotsOrigins, latterly ScotlandsPeople website access to the records of Scotland's people !!  Surely only reasonable for a Scottish resident and UK taxpayer who is an expert genealogist, in terms of where a proportion of "my" tax take is being spent??

Getting back to the theme of Clare's post, if there is any problem in terms of interpreting an image purchased and downloaded from ScotlandsPeople then the mantra is "Submit a Contact Form", and you will receive the same level of service as experienced by Claire. 

<more to follow, due to RootsChat limit on 5,500 characters !!>


Offline ibi

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Re: It pays to complain...
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 30 July 05 16:01 BST (UK) »
....second part ..........

It matters not how experienced or inexperienced you are in terms of interpreting Scottish statutory BMD register entries, - if you have a problem, - just "Submit a Contact Form" to ScotlandsPeople !!   

I might well be able to interpret a good proportion of these images, - part of the skill in terms of interpreting such images is knowing what to expect in the various parts of the images, - and that can only come from experience in terms not only of what to expect in the entries but also experience of the "hands" of the various eras involved, - but GROS understand fully this aspect and that there is a massive difference between a researcher such as me with approaching 20 years experience, and someone who only started to research their Scottish family tree last week !!  :-*

To sum up what has developed into a "rather" long post, - if you have a problem with the interpretation of an image that you have purchased and downloaded from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, be that a BMD register entry, or a 1901, 1891 or 1871 census entry (which I haven't addressed), or any of the future images that will appear on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , - the 1861, 1851, 1841, and then the 1881 censuses (the latter re-indexed and digitised), as well as the OPR images due in a year of so (the digitisation of these records is complete, but problems in terms of linking these images to the existing indexes have led to a decision to spend a considerable sum on re-indexing the OPRs); plus the various Minor Records, - the RCE, - Register of Corrected Entries have already been digitised, but major problems have been encountered in terms of linking these to the original register entries when the time interval between the original entry and the RCE entry has meant that it is not straightforward to link the images.  And then there's the RNE, - the Register of Neglected Entries !!

ibi






Offline Clare Fowler

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Re: It pays to complain...
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 30 July 05 16:17 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Thanks for all the background information - I wasn't 100% sure of the justification of why they imaged the documents in the way that they did.

I am a big fan of scotlandspeople (although I realise that they have their faults) as they provided a good backbone for my research over the years.  I have yet to find anything as easy to use and as comprehensive in another country to aid my research elsewhere.  However, I have been lucky and this is the first truly illegible certificate I have ever downloaded (all the others I have been able to decipher), and I was very impressed with their way of dealing with the problem.  Given the number that I must have viewed so far, I think that is a pretty good success rate that they have.

Cheers,
Clare
ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire
BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow
CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow
And many, many more...


Offline ibi

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Re: It pays to complain...
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 30 July 05 16:30 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Thanks for all the background information - I wasn't 100% sure of the justification of why they imaged the documents in the way that they did.

I am a big fan of scotlandspeople (although I realise that they have their faults) as they provided a good backbone for my research over the years.  I have yet to find anything as easy to use and as comprehensive in another country to aid my research elsewhere.  However, I have been lucky and this is the first truly illegible certificate I have ever downloaded (all the others I have been able to decipher), and I was very impressed with their way of dealing with the problem.  Given the number that I must have viewed so far, I think that is a pretty good success rate that they have.

Cheers,
Clare

Hi Clare

Glad to have been able to clarify the situation !!

You are indeed fortunate in terms of the images that you have previously viewed !  :o

wkr

ibi

Offline Clare Fowler

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Re: It pays to complain...
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 30 July 05 16:40 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

I haven't taken that course.  I attended some classes run at a local college by one of the members of the Glasgow and West of Scotland FHS - other than that I am self taught.  I have a few good books that have helped me, and a number of useful contacts both here in Scotland, and in England, Canada and Australia that I have built up over a period of time. 

I am also currently studying Scottish Social and Economic History at university, which is helping immensely in understanding migration patterns and changing employment in my research, and just giving me that little bit better understanding of what my ancestors' lives were like.

Where I have problems is Irish research!!  But that is probably because my irish ancestors have left so little information behind to go on  ???

Cheers,
Clare
ELLIOT, CROZIER, HAY, AITCHISON, COWAN - Roxburghshire
BETT - Kinross-shire, Fife and Glasgow
CHAMBERS, BRUFF, WESTMACOTT - Glasgow
And many, many more...

Offline ibi

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Re: It pays to complain...
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 30 July 05 18:11 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Thanks for all the background information - I wasn't 100% sure of the justification of why they imaged the documents in the way that they did.

I am a big fan of scotlandspeople (although I realise that they have their faults) as they provided a good backbone for my research over the years.  I have yet to find anything as easy to use and as comprehensive in another country to aid my research elsewhere.  However, I have been lucky and this is the first truly illegible certificate I have ever downloaded (all the others I have been able to decipher), and I was very impressed with their way of dealing with the problem.  Given the number that I must have viewed so far, I think that is a pretty good success rate that they have.

Cheers,
Clare

Hi Clare

Good to hear in terms of your viewing experience to date, as well as the GROS response when the image was a problem !!

ibi

Offline Rosemarymee

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It pays to complain .....
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 31 July 05 12:14 BST (UK) »
What ibi is too modest to say is that he is such an expert in family history that he is giving a lecture this November in Glasgow to members and friends of the Glasgow and West of Scotland Family History Society.  I think it will be a memorable occasion - somebody I know is coming all the way from the Antipodes - well, she's going to be over here anyway, but wouldn't miss hearing his lecture for anything!

Rosemary
Tyson - Argyll and Stirlingshire
Meehan/Meechan - Glasgow and Stirlingshire
Christy/Christie - Linlithgow,Bo'ness, Dunbs & Stirlingshire
O'Brien  - Linlithgow
Dougherty/Doherty - Dunbartonshire & Stirlingshire

Offline kenjo

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Re: It pays to complain...
« Reply #8 on: Monday 01 August 05 21:42 BST (UK) »
Hi There, :D
Quote
What ibi is too modest to say is that he is such an expert in family history that he is giving a lecture this November in Glasgow to members and friends of the Glasgow and West of Scotland Family History Society.
I wish I could come too! :'(
I am not a Scot, but my partner is pure Scot, and I wave the flag whenever I can,
In this posting, I have learnt a lot, thanks, ibi,
Wish, you the best with your lecture.
kenjo ;D
Pattillo, Connon, Shand, Mackie, Hickey, Brooks, Ryan.