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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Huneynutloop on Tuesday 21 October 08 09:31 BST (UK)

Title: **Solved!! Many thanks!**Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: Huneynutloop on Tuesday 21 October 08 09:31 BST (UK)
Hi:)

I've got a bit of a family mystery here...I'm searching for anything at all to do with these two sisters:

Nellie Holmes
b. 1896 - Sheffield, Yorks.
m. 1919 - Lincs. (to Albert E. Campbell)
d. 1967 - Lincoln, Lincs.
Also:
Florence Amelia Holmes
b. 1898 - Sheffield Yorks.
d. 1915 - Lincs.
Their parents were Joseph Holmes and Sarah Jane Groves (the latter I think may have died in childbirth with Florence).

Now these two are a bit of a family mystery..they weren't brought up by their father, but I don't know why. Nellie I know was brought up by "Auntie Minnie Button" (who I've found to be Amelia Button, wife of Alken, living in Nettleham, Lincs. in 1901). I'm told she would never talk about her parents because she said she wasn't wanted, and wouldn't even tell her daughters when her birthday was.. I'd love to find out why these two were sent away and what relation "Auntie Minnie Button" was to the family?

Also, I can't find Florence anywhere on the 1901 census, and although I think she died in Welbourn, Lincs. I don't know who she was given away to, as she definately didn't stay with her father (he later remarried). I'm also interested in finding out why she died so young.

If anyone has any of these people in their tree, or has maybe seen Florence on the census I'd love to hear from you!

Many thanks:)

Catherine
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: tazzie on Tuesday 21 October 08 09:49 BST (UK)



    This may help find Minnie .....

  Amelia HOLMES  married
  Atkin Button     Caistor Q4 1874

  Amelia daughter of Samuel &Ann Holmes


               Tazzie
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: jaywit on Tuesday 21 October 08 09:55 BST (UK)
According to this Florence died in 1919, not 1915, maybe flu?

Florence A Holmes
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Year of Registration: 1919
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 20
District: Sleaford (To 1933)
County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 458

If you send for her death certificate it will give the cause of death and who registered it.
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: Huneynutloop on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:18 BST (UK)
Hi Jaywit that's brilliant thank-you! I'll send off for it this afternoon:)

Thanks Tazzie:) I've actually got Nellie's father's parents down as being James Holmes and Diana Ann Coope, so think Minnie must maybe have been a cousin or something (assuming I have his parents names correct as I know he had a sister called amelia as well)....hmmm...

Catherine
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: down-under on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:23 BST (UK)
1901 Rg13/3051 folio 52 page 12 Welbourn lincolnshire


Private House

George Meggitt? age 55 Well Sinker lincs
Elizabeth Meggitt age 50 Welburn
Annie M dau age 29 Welburn Dress maker own account
Ada L dau age 26 Welburn mothers help
George M son age 19 Welbourn Well sinker
Harry son age 14 Welbourn Farm lab
Frederick son age 12 Welbourn
Gertrude dau age 11 Sheffield Yorkshire
Florence A Holmes nurse child age 2 born Welbourn Lincolnshire

The other children Merritt are born Welbourn maybe the Sheffield  Yorkshire was posted by mistake to Gertrude instead of Florence.

Pam
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: tazzie on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:28 BST (UK)



  James was b@ 1830 Normanby son of Robert & Mary.
 In 1841 he has a 5 years old brother Samuel.
  HO107/641 F 5 P 5

 Amelia & Atkin do not appear on census with any children so it would be easy for them to take her in .

               Tazzie
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: down-under on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:29 BST (UK)
Hello

1891 Gertrude Meggitt is born Welbourn Lincs not Sheffield The 1901 census looks like Florence A Holmes of Sheffield

Pam
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:31 BST (UK)
Amelia BUTTON, 44 in 1901, was born in Bishop Norton - I should think she is therefore likely to be the Amelia HOLMES, 15 b Bishop Norton, who in 1871 was in service in North Owersby, Lincs: RG10/3425/23/2

Anna
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: GeoffE on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:31 BST (UK)
Births Mar 1890
MEGGITT    Gertrude Elizabeth         Sleaford    7a   472
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:35 BST (UK)
Amelia HOLMES with parents in 1861:

Farr St, Bishop Norton, Lincs

Samuel Holmes Head Mar 31 Agriculture Labourer Lincolnshire Normanby
Ann do Wife Mar 28 Lincolnshire Bishop Norton
Amelia do Daur 5 Scholar Lincolnshire Bishop Norton
Ann do Daur 3 Scholar Lincolnshire Bishop Norton

RG9/2395/5/6

Anna :)
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: tazzie on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:36 BST (UK)

   1861  RG9/2395 F 5 P 6  Bishop Norton Lincs.

  Samuel Holmes hd m 31  ag lab Normanby
  Ann                   wi m 28             Bishop Norton
  Amelia             dau 5  scholar            d/o
  Ann                 dau 3   d/o                  d/o

  1901 rg13 /3059 f 39 p 9 Nettleham Lincs

  Atkin Button hd m 46 general ag lab     South Willingham
  Amelia          wi m 44                              Bishop Norton
  Nellie Holmes niece u 4                           Yorks Sheffield

                   Tazzie


   Snap Anna must type faster..... ;D
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: tazzie on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:42 BST (UK)



   Catherine ....... who had a sister Amelia ?

            Tazzie
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: tazzie on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:47 BST (UK)



    James Holmes married Diana A Coope 1854 Caister Q1

                  Tazzie
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:48 BST (UK)
I've actually got Nellie's father's parents down as being James Holmes and Diana Ann Coope


This couple, plus children Mary A (13) and Tom (2), were in Bishop Norton in 1871: RG10/3424/46/10

No son James with them - perhaps he was elsewhere.  James Holmes snr was 41 born Normanby, so perhaps a brother or other close relative (twin even?) of Amelia Holmes' father Samuel, who was also b Normanby abt 1831.

Anna
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: GeoffE on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:50 BST (UK)
1901
66 Reginald St, Sheffield
George W GROVES 34 Horsekeeper (carters), Saxilby Lincs
Louisa 36 Welbourn
Laura 12 Welbourn
William T 8 Sheffield
Florence M 6 Sheffield
Ada L 3 Sheffield
Nellie 6m Sheffield
Charles VICKERS (Boarder)19 Coal Carter, Saxilby
Joseph HOLMES (Boarder,wid) 29 Provision Carter, Bishop Norton

Marriages Sep 1886 
GROVES    George William         Sleaford    7a   691    
HARVEY    Louisa Baker         Sleaford    7a   691

1881
Joseph HOLMES 9 Bishop Norton
son of James 52 Normanby and Dinah 48 Bishop Norton
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: tazzie on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:57 BST (UK)



   Joseph Holmes appears with James & Diana in 1881 as born 1872.
  I cannot see Joseph having a sister Amelia?

  RG11/3245 F 88 P19 IN Caenby Lincs

               Tazzie
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 21 October 08 10:57 BST (UK)
James Holmes, 23 b Normanby, is in service in Bishop Norton in 1851: HO107/2115/298/7

This gives a revised birthdate of abt 1828 which matches with an 8 a 13 yr old James Holmes who is in the household of Robert and Mary Holmes in Normanby in 1841.  One of the other children is a Samuel Holmes, 5.  Perhaps he became a bit vague about his age later on, if this is Amelia's father.

1841 ref: HO107/641/6/5/5

Anna :)

Edited to correct my error - thanks for pointing that out, Geoff ;)
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: GeoffE on Tuesday 21 October 08 11:05 BST (UK)
Baptism 19 Oct 1828, Normanby by Spital
James HOLMES, son of Robert and Mary
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: Huneynutloop on Tuesday 21 October 08 11:28 BST (UK)
Hey all, thank-you SO MUCH for all your replies! Sorry for the lateness in posting back but I'm afraid you're gonna have to forgive my newbie brain, think I've actually started getting smoke coming out my ears now, lol!:)

The Meggitt thing (Florence's carers) is quite interesting as I actually have Nellie's daughter marrying a Meggitt from the area, later on:)

I have to admit that I might've been a bit naughty and used some info from someone else's tree that I should have checked into more thoroughly, but here I have Joseph Holmes (Nellie's father) as being listed with a sister Amelia:
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/person.aspx?pid=-1114113523&tid=7339370&ssrc=

Think I'd better go back now and work out for sure who Nellie's paternal grandparents were and how the Meggitts fit in..

Cat
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: tazzie on Tuesday 21 October 08 11:41 BST (UK)



   Hi Catherine ......

 I think they put 2 & 2 together and got 5 in this case..... or have they ?

  They have Amelia married to Atkin but here is her baptism ...

 Amelia Holmes 1855 father James mother Diana Ann.........
 so were there two Amelia's and this one died ....cannot see that...... or is the parish entry wrong....date given as extracted 10Sept 1855!

   Amelia is down as Daughter to Samuel & Ann in 1861 and a servant in 1871.

       Tazzie
 
Title: Re: Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: Huneynutloop on Tuesday 21 October 08 11:50 BST (UK)
At least it helps to solve the Meggitt side...I've found the marriage record between Joseph Holmes (Nellie & Florence's dad) and Annie M Meggitt (daughter of Florence's carers) in Sept quarter 1902, around the time they had their first child together that same year.
Title: Re: **Solved!! Many thanks!**Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: Huneynutloop on Thursday 23 October 08 09:34 BST (UK)
A mystery solved!! Woohoo!:)

Turns out Joseph Holmes' (Nellie and Florence's dad) second marriage was to the cousin of his first wife. No wonder the same names going round and round was giving me a headache, lol! This means that (besides potentially having something to shake my finger at one of my ancestors for) he did actually keep his youngest child, Florence, with him, but left Nellie elsewhere..

Many thanks to everyone helped me by posting a reply! Especially Tazzie, Anna and Geoffe who's tireless efforts (including having to explain everything to me in words of one syllable) helped me to unravel it all. Thanks guys!!:)

Cat
Title: Re: **Solved!! Many thanks!**Family mystery - Holmes/Campbell/Groves/Button
Post by: down-under on Thursday 23 October 08 09:44 BST (UK)
Glad to be of help


Pam