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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 07:26 GMT (UK)

Title: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 07:26 GMT (UK)
I am searching for my Grandfather's birth date, I had been told that it was 1st quarter 1868  and have just obtained that certificate only to find it is not the right one, his name is correct Benjamin Williams, but has father Thomas and mother Margaret is not.
My grandfathers fathers name was Griffith and his mother was Cecilia, I have his baptism records from St Mary's church in Briton Ferry, he was baptised on 01/07/1868 and there is a age listed of 6 months, which suggest 2/1868.
I have his last passport which says its 10/07/1870!
It is confusing can anyone help me here?
Any help is as ever most welcome
thank you
Kind regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: NigelG on Tuesday 22 March 05 07:52 GMT (UK)
I think that the Briton Ferry registers will be held at the Neath Reg office (who are very helpful).

Pearl Assurance House, London Road, Neath, SA11 1HL.
Tel: 01639 760020. Fax: 01639 760023.

I'd give them a ring with the details you have esp parent names and ask them to search to see if they have the birth recorded there. They have all births indexed  on computer so they should be able to do this for you over the phone.

If identified, however, it means shelling out for another certificate but at least this time you will know its the right certificate!  :)

Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 10:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Nigel,
thanks for that update have called them, they will have a look i will call then back in an hour.
kind regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 13:14 GMT (UK)
no joy they cannot locate anything did a 5 year search round 1868 too.
i wonder if the date in his passport is correct?
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: NigelG on Tuesday 22 March 05 13:39 GMT (UK)
If they did a search either side of 1868 the registry office would have searched past the date in the passport so thats not looking hopeful.

Checking on IGI Griffith & Cecilia Williams appear to stop having children or at least baptising them in 1855? Are you sure these are the parents? Where did you get the baptism data from?

The Briton Ferry entries on IGI seem pretty complete so if he's not on there, maybe he wasn't born in Briton Ferry? Might be worth using IGI to look at births elsewhere in Glam that may suit ???

Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 13:51 GMT (UK)
i obtained the baptism records from gfhs for st marys church, briton ferry on microfiche, the listings seems quite complete for baptisms and show child father mothers name dates and location too! which is all correct.
The people in neath checked the date i have for 1870 whilst i was talking to them
they couldnt find anything, i did a search on free bdm this morning and there is only one 1868 birth for neath, searched for glamorgan, there are others but which one just seems odd what i assumed was the correct one is now wrong.
regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: NigelG on Tuesday 22 March 05 14:16 GMT (UK)
Do you know when Benjamin married? Have you found Benjamin on the 1901 census (assuming he's married by then)
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 14:54 GMT (UK)
Nope, still looking for both marriages, the more i discover the less i know for sure it seems, do know when he died though!
regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 15:02 GMT (UK)
i have a 1900 confirmed address as 18 griffith st, maerdy, i guess he might have been there for the 1901 census, i have asked before if someone could check but nothing.
It seems that the south wales echo article isnt 100% when it comes to information, appears to be from august or september of 1912, my mother from her magic bag of goodies has just discovered the original article!
regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: NigelG on Tuesday 22 March 05 15:14 GMT (UK)
Would he have been married by then? Any idea when? What was his wife's name?Any children? Any or all of this info will help to greatly narrow down the search.

I don't have access to the 1901 census but will try & track him down in 1891 if you can give me any of the above info or further details.  :)

Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 15:27 GMT (UK)
i just do not have this information, wish i had, was in maerdy from 1884 till 1902.
I did a seach on marriages benjamin williams and merthyr tydfil as the local office at that time 1884-1902 and have 22 entries.
which hardly makes it any easier, i was thinking about maybe looking on the electoral registrar entry for 18 griffith street, maerdy as that might show up something, but i would have to pay a visit to where?, not sure if these are kept in Merthyr or where?
in that south wales echo article it does mention 3 children (2 boys and a girl).
if you want a copy i can send one direct, just let me know
kind regards
Paul W illiams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: NigelG on Tuesday 22 March 05 15:40 GMT (UK)
If its a scanned copy - send it over and I'll see what can I sort out  :)
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 15:42 GMT (UK)
yes it scanned to which e-mail address?
regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 22 March 05 15:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

Just had a thought (had a look on genuki) with regards to Maerdy ............. would it have come under Ystradyfodwg for 1901 census purposes?

http://www.census.pro.gov.uk ................ search by address ............... griffith (street)    ystradyfodwg (place) and a number 18 does come up. 

Don't want to send you on a wild goose chase but do wonder if this is significant.

Best wishes

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:01 GMT (UK)
Hiya,
it might be i seeing in 1901 census it is listed for ferndale and thats just down the way, could be.
if you are able to check please do, i just have been assuming wrongly it seems it was under a great Merthyr umbrella.
kind regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

I don't know it's just that I looked at Genuki and saw this:

Maerdy in the Parish of Ystradyfodwg

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Ystradyfodwg/Maerdy/

Went to the 1901 site .........

............. searched for Ben* WILLIAM* in Ystradyfodwg and I think it threw up 60 persons.

Thus I decided to have a go at searching for the address .................... I'm afraid you have to pay to see the images.

Best wishes

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:19 GMT (UK)
I think he's possibly the one age 38 born Briton Ferry in Ystradyfodwg 1901 census.  Have sent PM.

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hiya, could well be, i have been taking ages with a huge pinch of salt recently, nothing seems correct at all.
regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:37 GMT (UK)
If it is him then this could be a match (if you don't already have it)

1891

Benj WILLIAMS head mar 28 coal miner b.Briton Ferry
Selia wife 24?
Do (for ditto) WILLIAM or should it be other way round and read William Do - or maybe Dd or David? - don't know - son 3
Mary dau 15 months
John boarder unm 29 coal miner b.Britton Ferry
??? (maybe Thos??) EVANS unm boarder 27 coal miner b.Britton Ferry

I'm afraid I can't decipher the birthplaces for Selia and children - terrible writing - I suspect that we might need somebody with more Welsh experience than I to look at them

RG12/4430 folio 110 page 58

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:43 GMT (UK)
hiya,
yes i thought i had to have a look myself, more people that i thought there too.
i am wondering why are mothers and wives all having the same name!
kind regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

If this Benjamin is yours then I would think he's probably quite a bit older than you thought ie born c1862/1863 so the baptism is probably the wrong one  ???

Perhaps he lied about his age if he was quite a bit older than his second wife  ???

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 22 March 05 16:52 GMT (UK)
Yes i am coming to think the same, just wondering if my information is totally erroneous now?
1901 has 7 children and one has my fathers name!
regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: NigelG on Tuesday 22 March 05 18:28 GMT (UK)
Just sent you some info  :)
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 22 March 05 21:41 GMT (UK)
Quote
Yes i am coming to think the same, just wondering if my information is totally erroneous now?
1901 has 7 children and one has my fathers name!

It's definitely your family then if you have personal effects to support the name & address  ???

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: SS from The Rhondda on Tuesday 22 March 05 23:02 GMT (UK)
I'm afraid I can't decipher the birthplaces for Selia and children - terrible writing - I suspect that we might need somebody with more Welsh experience than I to look at them
RG12/4430 folio 110 page 58
Here's my interpretation:

schedule 292
56 Pentre Rd, Tylorstown with Ferndale (part of)
WILLIAMS Benj, head, m, 28, Coal Miner, Glam Britton Ferry, English
WILLIAMS Selia, wife, m, 24, -, Monmouthshire, both
WILLIAMS Dd, son, -, 3, -, Glam Garw Valley, both
WILLIAMS Mary, dau, -, 15 mths,  -, Glam Mardy, -
WILLIAMS John, boarder, s, 29, Coal Miner, Glam Britton Ferry, both
EVANS Thos, boarder, s, 27, Coal Miner, Glam Britton Ferry, both
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Wednesday 23 March 05 03:23 GMT (UK)
Stephen THOMAS Head  Male   43   Maenclochog, Pembroke   Coal Miner     
Elizabeth THOMAS  Wife Female  41  Baglan, Glamorgan   Coal Miners Wife     
William THOMAS   Son    Male   23   Briton Ferry, Glamorgan   Coal Miner     
Annie THOMAS  Dau   Female  19   Briton Ferry, Glamorgan   Coal Miner Daughter     
Benjamin WILLIAMS  Neph Male 19 Briton Ferry, Glamorgan Coal Miner Nephew     

this is from www.familysearch.org for 1881
Pontycwmer ,  Llangeinor, Glamorgan, Wales
RG11   Piece / Folio   5328 / 109   Page Number   6


Thanks to NigelG he has provided with many extracts today and to Casalguidi  as well for pointing me in the right direction as ever.

SS from The Rhondda
On the 1901 census it is spelling Selia as Cecilia and says Mountain Ash as her birthplace. I am really impressed you can make out that Thos for Thomas Evans, but i agree with you i cannot make out what it says for Selia birthplace either on that particular document.

It does appear that my grandfather was born earlier 1862, my current thoughts now, especially as i have seen the 1871 census thanks again NigelG, checking his age against other figures its an 8 not a 3.
Thanks once again to everyone i have mentioned.
Kind regards
Paul Williams

Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Tuesday 05 April 05 10:49 BST (UK)
I have the certificate, its July 10th 1862, why his passport says July 10th 1870 is another matter!
Many thanks to everyone who has helped discover more
kind regards
Paul Williams
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: NigelG on Tuesday 05 April 05 13:57 BST (UK)
Excellent news! :)
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 05 April 05 15:09 BST (UK)
Yes, that's great  :D

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: borneo on Tuesday 05 April 05 21:12 BST (UK)
Hi Paul,
Have you the full 1871 census for the family? if not I can forward it to you.

Griffith is mentioned in the 1881 Census age 57, Pilot, with his new wife.

Wobbley
Title: Re: Benjamin Williams birth date
Post by: paulwilliams on Wednesday 06 April 05 06:38 BST (UK)
Hiya,
Thanks for the reply, yes i have the information for 1871 and 1881 censuses, it really now a case of tracking down the wives lines.
Kind regards
Paul Williams