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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: debbie_dw on Wednesday 23 June 10 13:11 BST (UK)
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Hi I am looking for relatives of my gg grandmother Maria Ann Goldsmith b 1833 Ramsgate, Kent. Father Charles & mother Maria. Other children of Charles & Maria were Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith b 1835 Ramsgate, Caroline Frances b 1841, Mary Louisa b 1843 & Sarah Ellen b 1846.
Maria Ann Goldsmith at some stage in the early 1850's came to Australia and had 7 children but I dont know anything of her family in England before she came to Australia. :)
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this looks like your family in1841
Harbone Place Ramsgate Kent
Chas Goldsmith 40 mariner
Chas 15
Maria 34
Robert 13
Willm 10
Maria 7
Elizth 5
James 3
Caroline 3mths
all b Kent
HO107 469 42 33
1841 census does not give relationships -ages of adults over 15 are rounded down to the nearest 5 yrs -p.o.b. is only given as "yes" or "no" inanswer to whether they were born in the county they were living in
Suz
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1851
Kent Place ramsgate Kent
Maria Goldsmith Head Widow 42 Formerley Domestic Servant
Charles J son U 26 Grocer's shopman
William son U 20 Book Binder's asst
Elizabeth daughter 15 Dressmaker
James son 13 errand boy
Caroline daughter 10 Scholar
Sarah daughter 5 scholar
Walter son 1
Robert son U 22 Mariner & Pier boatman
Caroline Keen Visitor U Domestic Servant Kent
all Goldsmith's b Ramsgate
Ho107 1630 349 27
Maria is working in Ramsgate as a servant
Suz
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Death of her father Charles
Charles Goldsmith
June 1849
Thanet I
5 383
Jan
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I can't see her mother in 1861, but the youngest child is with his brother
RG 09/536/54/27
6 Kent Place Ramsgate
Robert Goldsmith head 32 Mariner Ramsgate
Caroline Goldsmith wife 31 Herne Kent
Walter Goldsmith brother 11 Ramsgate
Gayler Keen nephew 7 Herne Kent
Matilda Holmes visitor 14 Herne Kent
Jan
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This looks like Maria's death
Maria Goldsmith
June 1855
Thanet
2a 412
Jan
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it looks like Robert Goldsmith married Caroline Keen who was visitng in 1851 census
Marriage reg FreeBMD
Dec qtr 1851
Thanet
5 739
on same page
Robert george Goldsmith
Caroline Keen
Suz
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Thank you very much for all the information, yes it is my Maria. Cheers Deb ;D
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Hi Debbie :),
Charles & Maria Goldsmith are my ggg grandparents. Their daughter Sarah (Ellen) Elizabeth b.1846 married my gg grandfather Alfred Thomas Smithers (I have a photo of him but not his wife) at Ramsgate in 1865. They had 7 children between 1867 & 1881 all born in Ramsgate. Their daughter Ellen Elizabeth Smithers is my great grandmother. Her daughter Rose Elizabeth is my grandmother.
Charles J Goldsmith's (1800-1849) parents are Edward Goldsmith & Sarah Wood who married in 1783 at St Lawrence, Ramsgate. Both were born in Ramsgate and Charles was one of 13 children born to the couple.
I have no other information on Maria other than the fact that she was born in 1809 in Ramsgate. (although she may have died in 1855) I don't have a date for her marriage to Charles.
I also have a few details on some of Charles and Maria's other children.
Hope this is helpful.
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There is a marriage Charles GOLDSMITH to Maria FREEMAN 31 Jan 1826 St Lawrence Thanet http://www.familysearch.org
Casalguidi :)
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Thank you Cas, that ties in nicely with the birth of their eldest, Charles James c.1826, Ramsagate. :)
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Thank you for the info, this is great. Could you send me any more info on Charles and Maria's children? I would really appreciate anything. ;D
Cheers Deb
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Here we go then...
Charles & Maria’s children:
Charles James (b.1826 Ramsgate d.1867 Petersham NSW)
Married Anna Maria Lawrence 13/4/1857 Sydney NSW
Baptised 26/11/1826, St Lawrence, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1851 census - grocer's shopman
1854 - went to Australia
Children: Ann M (b.1859 Sydney)
Henrietta Caroline (b.1861 Sydney)
Robert George (b.1828 Ramsgate d.1824 Ramsgate)
Married twice: 1. Caroline Keen (b.1830 Herne, Kent d.1862 Herne, Kent)
2. Sarah Hollands (b.1838 Margate)
Baptised 17/8/1828, St Georges Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1851 census - Monument Pier boatman, his future wife Caroline Keen was working as a domestic servant in the family home.
1861 census - mariner of 6, Kent Place, Ramsgate with wife, Caroline, young brother Walter and nephew Gayler(?) Keen. No children.
1871 census - mariner of 7, Cliff Court, Ramsgate with 2nd wife, Sarah. No children.
1881 census - mariner of Kent Cottage, Kent Place, Ramsgate with 2nd wife Sarah. No children.
1891 census - mariner of 76 Harbour Street, Ramsgate, with wife Sarah and Alice Hobday a 30 year old married woman from Norfolk. (listed, interestingly, as daughter of Robert, no occupation). Home is next door to the Queens Head pub, the landlord of which is Isaac Jarman (the former lifeboat coxswain?)
William Henry (b.1830 Ramsgate)
Baptised 31/10/1830 Ramsgate, Kent (LDS IGI)
1851 census - bookbinder's assistant
Cannot find him on subsequent censuses or find record of any marriage etc. There is always the possibility that he went to Australia too.
Richard Daniel (b & d 1832)
Baptised 19/8/1832, Buried 23/8/1832, St Georges Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
Maria Ann (b.1833 Ramsgate)
Baptised 14/7/1833, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1851 - working in Ramsgate as a servant.
Emigrated to Australia in 1850s. Married Jabez Janes 1854 - Had 7 children.
Elizabeth Pullen (b.1835 Ramsgate) married Peter Bedford Keogh in Australia
Baptised 26/7/1835, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1851 census dress maker
1854 emigrated to Australia (this info & marriage from Ancestry members family tree) no citations.
James Freeman (b.1837 Ramsgate)
Married Harriet Paul 1872, Kensington, London
Baptised 15/10/1837, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1851 - census - Errand Boy
1861 - in Royal Navy, Ordinary Seaman, at sea in Kiukiang, China
Was married Apr-Jun 1872, Kensington Vol 1a, p.392
1891 - lived at 16 Adair Road, Kensington.
Probably died Jan-Mar 1900, Lewisham Vol 1d, p.927
4 children born Kensington:
John P (1863), Grace (1866), Sarah E (1870) & William (1883)
Caroline Frances (b.1841 Ramsgate d.1869 Williamstown Victoria Aus)
Married Archibald Price from Dunbarton Scotland on 22/1/1859 at Williamstown.
Baptised 21/3/1841, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
4 children born Williamstown:
Archibald (1860), William (1862), Richard (1864) & Robert (1866)
Mary Louise (b.1843, Ramsgate)
Baptised 7/5/1843, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
No further information. Maybe died young.
Sarah Ellen Elizabeth (b.1846 Ramsgate)
Baptised 9/8/1846, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1864 - According to one researcher on Ancestry, she apparently went to Australia with young brother Walter to search for her sisters Maria & Caroline who emigrated in 1854. Young Walter had been in the care of his older brother Robert who lost his 1st wife in 1862, so presumably she was looking for someone to look after him. She married there and remained in Australia.
Walter Joseph (b.1849 Ramsgate)
Baptised 17/6/1849 Ramsgate, kent (LDS IGI)
1861 - with brother & wife in Ramsgate.
Good luck!
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Thank you very much for all your info, it is great ;D
Cheers Deb
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Hi just one thing, did Sarah Ellen Elizabeth Goldsmith b 1846 marry your GG Grandfather Alfred Smithers? or come to Australia. :)
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Hi Debbie,
I should have explained. While I was looking into details of Charles & Maria's children I discovered that I had made an error. My gg grandmother is in fact Sarah Ann Elizabeth Goldsmith, daughter of Frederick & Sarah Goldsmith. Frederick's father was Jarman Goldsmith (married to Frances Betts Atherton), Charles J's brother.
So we're still related but maybe a bit more distantly! We are both apparently descendants of Edward Goldsmith (b.1762) & Sarah Wood (b.1763).
It appears that Sarah Ellen Elizabeth did go to Australia with brother Walter and got married there.
Sorry about the confusion... ;D
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I am very intersted in your photograph of your gggrandfather Alfred Thomas Smithers.
He is also my gggrandfather. That would make us 4th cousins.
He is referred to as Alfred Snr. by his ggrandchildren,his son,also Alfred, being referred to as Alfred Jnr.
Would it be possible to email a larger image to email address removed by moderator - please use the secure Rootschat personal message system to exchange email addresses thankyou.
Nora Pillow is my ggrandmother, my father and aunt have very clear memories of her when the family were living at Leopold Street in Ramsgate.
Yours Hopefully
Paul Smithers
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Hi Paul, I don't have the photo, but on the reply to my posts Greentrad has the photo. Good Luck Deb
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Debbie,
My Goldsmith line stems from Sarah Wood and Edward Goldsmith, in particular their son Jarman, born Ramsgate 1787 died 1855
Jarman married Francis Betts Anderton of Dover in St Mary the Virgin Church, Dover on 8th Nov 1811. They had nine children, the ninth, Jane (1825-1895) married Frederick Button in Ramsgate in Sept 1846. Fred and Jane had seven children, they moved to Lowestoft and spead out from there.
There are a lot of gaps in my info but you can have what I've got if you like.
Edward and Sarah would be my g.g.g.g.grandparents.
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Hi Wheatman,
I've just spotted your message about Edward & Sarah Goldsmith and their son Jarman. I too am descended from Jarman. He had a son Frederick, born 1819 who married Sarah Elizabeth Gurr. Their daughter Sarah Ann Elizabeth Goldsmith was my gg grandmother. Our particular branch of the family stayed in Ramsgate until WW2 but were eventually forced to leave because of the bombing.
If you'd like to know more, just get in touch,
:)
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Hi Wheatman, I would love any info you have about the Goldsmiths, maybe I can send you anything i have as well. Hope to hear from you. :) Not sure how I can send you my personal email address. Cheers Deb
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To Debbie and Greentrad,
I will use the secure PM system to send you my home e0mail adress and from there hopefully we can exchange notes and data more securely.
Do you have a Family History program and does it accept GEDCOM.
Speak yo soon, indirectly.
Roger
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I live in Melbourne, Australia, and Maria Ann Goldsmith is my great grandmother...
Maria Ann Goldsmith was born in Ramsgate, Kent, England and was 24 years old in 1857 when my grandmother Clara Jane GOLDSMITH was born Flemington 1857. Her age and details on her daughter’s certificate therefore makes her born in 1833 at Ramsgate, Kent, England.
Maria was said on some birth certificates to have a husband - Jabez Janes who was age 45 yrs and Maria was 34 yrs on the birth of Emily Sarah Janes in 1867. Making his record as born in Hampshire England in 1822. NO marriage certificate has been found for Maria & Jabez. I wonder if Jabez was Jewish and Maria was not and the marriage of the two not recognised. any help with info would be appreciated, and I in turn can offer what research I have done. thanks Margot
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Margot,
Unfortunately, all I know of your side of the Goldsmiths is what I have gleaned from Greentrad in particular, I am currently unable to assist you, but will ferret about and see if I can come up with something.
Regards
Roger
ps its cold, windy and wet here and Melbourne is such a warm and pretty alternative
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The surname JANES ;- This interesting and unusual name is of medieval English origin, and is found chiefly in Devon and Cornwall. The derivation is from the Middle English given name "Jan", a variant of John, from the Hebrew, meaning, "the Lord is gracious", or "Grace of the Lord", brought back to England by the Crusaders, where it began to spread in the 12th Century. It's earliest form in Europe was the Latin "Johannes", and was not specialized as a female given name until the 17th Century. In the modern idiom the variants include Jane, Jan, Jain(e), Jean, Jenn(e) and Genn, and the patronymic forms, meaning "son of Jan", Ja(y)nes, Jeynes, Jean(e)s, Jeens and Jenns. An early recording of the name is in Oxfordshire, of John Jane (1548). Among the recordings in Devon are the christenings of Anne Jane on September 6th 1563 at Little Hampston, and of Adrianus Jane on November 24th 1577, at Wolborough and Newton Abbott. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Simon Ians, which was dated 1297, in the "Ministers Accounts of the Earldom of Cornwall", during the reign of King Edward 1, known as "The Hammer of the Scots", 1272 - 1307. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.
Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Janes#ixzz1gG4E8o7W
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hello Roger,
oh that is very interesting info re the name Janes. thanks a lot or that - I appreciate you looking it up for me. do you know if Janes or Goldsmith is a Jewish family...?? my father and sister had a big roman nose and we are wondering if it comes from a Jewish line. see attached pic of Leo & George Roberts grandsons of Maria Ann Goldsmith and Jabez Janes.
yes has been sunny in Melbourne and was quite hot last week where I enjoyed some sun in the country with my daughter and grandchildren.. will send you some over if you like..!! 8)
thanks a lot Margot
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The physical feature is nothing to do with any Middle East connection as far as I know, the name Goldsmith in the UK may come either from the "trade" but more probably from a central european origin, you sure its not the "Fosters"
Yes please, send some warm sun, preferably in soon
Regards
Roger
see http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/GoldsmithGoldsmith
This interesting and unusual surname is of Anglo-Saxon origin, and is from an occupational name for a worker in gold, derived from a compound of the Olde English pre 7th Century "gold", similar to the Old High German "gold", and the Middle English (1200 - 1500) "smith", from the Olde English "smith", a smith, probably a derivative of "smitan", to strike, hammer. To a large extent it is an Anglicized form of the German "Goldschmid(t)". Metal-working was one of the earliest occupations for which specialist skills were required, and its importance ensured that these terms and their cognomens and equivalents were perhaps the most widespread of all occupational surnames in Europe. The surname was first recorded in the mid 13th Century, and early recordings of the surname include: Thomas Goldsmith, witness in the 1255 Assize Rolls of Essex; and John le Goldesmethe in the 1309 "Calendar of Letter Books of Devonshire". Probably the best known namebearer was Oliver Goldsmith (1728 - 1774), the Irish poet, dramatist and novelist, whose works include the novel "The Vicar of Wakefield" (1766), the poem "The Deserted Village" (1770), and the comedy "She Stoops to Conquer" (1773). A Coat of Arms granted to a Goldsmith family in Hampshire is a red shield, a chevron silver three crosses crosslet black on a chief gold, a lion passant red, the Crest being a stork black bezantee. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Roger Goldsmiz, which was dated 1250, in the "Middle English Surnames of Occupation", Norfolk, during the reign of King Henry 111, known as "The Frenchman", 1216 - 1272. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.
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Try this for size!
There was a plasterer called Jabez Janes from Breamore, Fordingbridge, New Forest, Hants c.1820 who married Maria Cooper from Edgeware Lodge, New Forest Hants (extra-parochial) between Jan-Mar 1843 at the New Forest, Hants. (Vol.8 p.293). On the 1851 census they were living at Pound House, Speen, Speenhamland, Near Newbury, Berkshire. with no children and one servant, Emily Middleton aged 14. (perhaps mistranscribed (?) on LDS IGI as surname "James"). Neither he nor his wife appear in subsequent UK census records so we can assume that they either died, changed their name or emigrated.
There was a Jabez James Berridge d.o.b. 13/1/1819 baptised at the Above Barr Independent Chapel, Southampton, Hants on 15/8/1821 son of Thomas and Hephzibah Berridge.Jabez appears to have had 2 brothers (born to the same unusually named parents) as follows: Perry Berridge, baptised in Newport Pagnall, Buckinghamshire on 2/1/1811 and Edwin Berridge, baptised in Bedford, Bedfordshire on 23/7/1835.I can find no record of the marriage of Thomas and Hepzibah Berridge on Ancestry, LDS IGI or Non-conformist BMD records.
Above Bar Congregational Church:
The church was founded in 1662 under the ministry of Rev Nathaniel Robinson. Having outgrown the original chapel, the a new building was erected on the site in 1727. This was later demolished in 1819 and replaced by an even larger building, the first stone of which was laid on 1 April 1819, and the building was completed on 20 April 1820, having cost nearly £6,000. A re-opening service was held on 6 November 1889.
The Church was the main Non-Conformist church in the city in the nineteenth century, when it was known as Above Bar Independent Chapel (later on becoming Above Bar Congregational Chapel, the oldest church in the Congregational Union. The pastor from 1810 to 1868 was Rev. Thomas Adkins.
Any good?
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thanks Greentrad - same name as my Jabez Janes who was born in Hampshire in 1822 but apart from that I can see no other connection.. my Jabez was in Melbourne Australia in 1854 where he was said to have married Maria Ann Goldsmith but no records can be found and he is later charged with deserting his 6 illegitimate children.. do you know if he was baptised in n Hampshire in 1822 and his parents names..??? I have no other info on him - he is a mystery to me.. thanks for your help, Margot in Melbourne.
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thanks Roger for the info on the name Goldsmith - that's interesting - always wondered where it came from - now I know
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Hi Greentrad and anyone interested - Re. your post -
Sarah Ellen Elizabeth Goldsmith (b.1846 Ramsgate)
Baptised 9/8/1846, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1864 - According to one researcher on Ancestry, she apparently went to Australia with young brother Walter to search for her sisters Maria & Caroline Goldsmith who emigrated in 1854. Young Walter had been in the care of his older brother Robert who lost his 1st wife in 1862, so presumably she was looking for someone to look after him. She married there and remained in Australia.
in My Victorian B D & M records I found -
Sarah Ellen Goldsmith married in Victoria, Australia to Henry Hall in 1865 and had children- Henry Walter Hall in 1866 in Williamstown , who died age 8 weeks in Williamstown, and Ellen Goldsmith Hall in Williamstown in 1867.
Of the brother Walter Goldsmith I found he married Mary Ann Parkinson in 1866, and had the following children all in Williamstown, Victoria –
James Cook Walter Parkinson Goldsmith 1867, Elizabeth Eve Goldsmith 1869, Adam Walter Goldsmith 1872, died 10 months 1872, Walter Goldsmith 1873, died 1 month 1873, Walter Harry Goldsmith 1874, Rhoda Amelia Goldsmith 1877, Elizabeth Redgrave Ross Goldsmith 1879, Oliver Goldsmith 1881, Walter Goldie Bothwell Goldsmith 1884.
All my Goldsmith, Janes & Roberts family lived in Williamstown near Melbourne. I hope this helps someone, Margot in Melbourne.
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Margot,
Thank you for the additional info, it all helps to build the"picture"
Regards
Roger
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Many thanks for the extra info Margot.
From one of those left behind in Blighty!
:) xx
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Dear Margot and Greentrad
http://www.mundia.com/au/Person/15410620/459371675
Browsing the internet for the Australian connection I came across the above link to a family tree which suggests that we have acompetitor for our Walter and the Australian connection set out by Margot.
The tree suggests(states) that Walter was born in Gravesend in 1848.
One of us is wrong, I suspect them.
Your thoughts please
Regards
Roger
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Hi Roger,
I checked my Digger marriage records and found the Walter Goldsmith link as -
Surname: GOLDSMITH
Given Names: Walter
Event: Marriage
Spouse Surname/: PARKINSON
Spouse Gvn Names/: Mary Ann
Birth Place: GRAVESEND
Year: 1866
Reg Number: 2906
so don't know if he is the wrong Walter or he wasn't sure where he was born for the record..!! will look further.
If any one wants me to look up Victorian B D & M records or inquest or other records I have at home I'm happy to do so..
Margot in Melbourne.
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Hi Roger, I've looked further and compared what I had to what you found and this is the result - other version for Walter Thomas Goldsmith - 1847-1888 -
info from - http://www.mundia.com/au/Person/15410620/459371675
Father - James Cook Goldsmith 1815-1884
Mother - Elizabeth Walter 1819-1885
Brother - James Goldsmith 1842-1842
Brother - James Walter Goldsmith 1843-1913
Brother - Joseph Goldsmith 1845-1853
Brother - Harry Edward Paynter Goldsmith 1859-1940
Wife - Mary Ann PARKINSON 1847-1938
Son - James Cook Walter Parkinson GOLDSMITH 1867-1949
Daughter - Elizabeth Eve GOLDSMITH 1869-
Son - Walter Harry GOLDSMITH 1873-1928
but on checking our Goldsmith's - from your records- the parents are different. So WRONG WALTER...!! ours are - family of - Walter Joseph Goldsmith (b.1849 Ramsgate) parents - Charles & Maria’s Goldsmith children:-
Charles James (b.1826 Ramsgate d.1867 Petersham NSW)
Married Anna Maria Lawrence 13/4/1857 Sydney NSW
Children: Ann M (b.1859 Sydney)
Henrietta Caroline (b.1861 Sydney)
Robert George (b.1828 Ramsgate d.1824 Ramsgate)
Married twice: 1. Caroline Keen (b.1830 Herne, Kent d.1862 Herne, Kent)
2. Sarah Hollands (b.1838 Margate)
William Henry (b.1830 Ramsgate)
Baptised 31/10/1830 Ramsgate, Kent (LDS IGI)
always the possibility that he went to Australia too.
Richard Daniel (b & d 1832)
Baptised 19/8/1832, Buried 23/8/1832, St Georges Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
Maria Ann (b.1833 Ramsgate)
Baptised 14/7/1833, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1851 - working in Ramsgate as a servant.
Emigrated to Australia in 1850s. Married Jabez Janes 1854 - Had 7 children.
Elizabeth Pullen (b.1835 Ramsgate) married Peter Bedford Keogh in Australia
Baptised 26/7/1835, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1851 census dress maker
1854 emigrated to Australia (this info & marriage from Ancestry members family tree) no citations.
James Freeman (b.1837 Ramsgate)
Married Harriet Paul 1872, Kensington, London
Caroline Frances (b.1841 Ramsgate d.1869 Williamstown Victoria Aus)
Married Archibald Price from Dunbarton Scotland on 22/1/1859 at Williamstown.
4 children born Williamstown, Victoria, Australia.
Archibald (1860), William (1862), Richard (1864) & Robert (1866)
Mary Louise (b.1843, Ramsgate)
No further information. Maybe died young.
Sarah Ellen Elizabeth (b.1846 Ramsgate)
Baptised 9/8/1846, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI)
1864 - According to one researcher on Ancestry, she apparently went to Australia with young brother Walter to search for her sisters Maria & Caroline who emigrated in 1854. Young Walter had been in the care of his older brother Robert who lost his 1st wife in 1862, so presumably she was looking for someone to look after him. She married there and remained in Australia.
Walter Joseph (b.1849 Ramsgate)
Baptised 17/6/1849 Ramsgate, kent (LDS IGI)
1861 - with brother & wife in Ramsgate.
SO OURS IS WALTER JOSEPH GOLDSMITH..
hope this now sorts it out ..
from Margot in Melbourne 8)
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One more thing - their Walter is -
Walter Thomas Goldsmith - 1847-1888
Born: Gravesend, Kent, , England
Died: Williamstown, Victoria, Australia
Father - James Cook Goldsmith 1815-1884
Mother - Elizabeth Walter 1819-1885.
our Walter is -
Walter Joseph Goldsmith (b.1849 Ramsgate)
Baptised 17/6/1849 Ramsgate, kent (LDS IGI)
1861 - with brother & wife in Ramsgate.
father - Charles Goldsmith
mother - Maria Freeman
thought to have gone to Australia.
Margot in Melbourne 8)
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ho ho more research done today....
Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith child of Charles Goldsmith and Maria Freeman (Baptised 26/7/1835, St Georges, Ramsgate (LDS IGI) emigrated to Australia 1854 (this info & marriage from Ancestry members family tree) and married Peter Bedford Keogh/Keough in Australia. Digger records show Elizabeth Goldsmith and Peter Bedford Keough had a son named Thomas Henry Keough in 1859 Burnt Creek, and his death at Maldon, Victoria, a gold mining town in 1882 with mother named as Elizabeth Pullin Goldsmith, and father Peter Bedford Keough. Other children listed as all born in Lockwood, Victoria ( near the gold-mining town of Bendigo) were - Frederick William Keaugh in 1862, Charles Keough in 1864, died age 5 yrs in 1870, Ellen Maria Keough in 1867, Walter Keough in 1869, Caroline Esther Keough in 1872, and Clara Jane Keough in 1874. Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith was the sister of our Maria Ann Goldsmith) and these children were her nieces and nephews. Interesting how some of the names are repeated in the family..
This then makes the children of Charles Goldsmith and Maria Freeman from Kent England who were found to have gone to Australia as –
Charles James Goldsmith (b.1826) Married Anna Maria Lawrence 1857 Sydney NSW
d.1867 Petersham NSW)
Maria Ann Goldsmith (b.1833 Ramsgate) had 6 children to Jabez Janes in Williamstown, Victoria.
Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith (b 1835) married Peter Bedford Keogh/Keough in Australia, and had 7 children born in Lockwood near Bendigo, Victoria..
Caroline Frances Goldsmith (b.1841 Ramsgate) married Archibald Price in 1859 in Williamstown. d.1869 Williamstown, Victoria.
Sarah Ellen Elizabeth Goldsmith (b.1846) married Henry Hall in 1865 in Williamstown. if any one wants more info please contact me - Margot in Melbourne. 8)
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Phew, Margot, that's a relief.
The next question that crops up is "are the Gravesend Goldsmiths related to our Ramsgate Goldsmiths?"
Thats a question that some wise sage other than me will have to ponder, but the commonality of christian names might suggest a link.
Thank you for that detailed info you kindly sent
Regards
Roger
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thanks Roger, the other Walter Thomas Goldsmith could be related back a generation or so, but I'll leave it up to you guys in the UK to sort that out, as now I've completed this research into which Goldsmiths came out to Australia, I can now finish my family history book and get it printed before Xmas.. and go out in that lovely sunshine we have here.. have a happy Xmas y'all.. hugs from your cousin in Australia..Margot 8)
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Re Walter Joseph Goldsmith,
In Melbourne Argus 1864 message reads,
To Mrs James (Janes), maiden name Maria Goldsmith or to Mrs Price maiden name Caroline Goldsmith please send your address to C Freeman 60 Harris Street Pymont Sydney, your brother Walter and sister Sarah have arrived and wish to hear from you.
We know Sarah must have come to Melbourne to meet up with Maria & Caroline as she married Henry Hall, maybe Walter stayed on in Sydney. Charles James Goldsmith owned a grocer shop in Pymont NSW and Charles's father Charles Goldsmith married a Maria Freeman. Maybe Walter stayed in NSW with his brother? :)
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looks like Debbie solved part of the mystery and that young Walter Joseph Goldsmith went to Sydney and stayed there with his brother Charles James Goldmsith, as I've found no trace of him in Melbourne. looks like the sisters all went to Melbourne - Maria, Sarah & Caroline.
But the other Walter Thomas Goldsmith who died in Williamstown could be a cousin of the Goldsmiths who also lived in Williamstown. any body know..??
Walter Thomas Goldsmith - 1847-1888
Born: Gravesend, Kent, , England
Died: Williamstown, Victoria, Australia
Father - James Cook Goldsmith 1815-1884
Mother - Elizabeth Walter 1819-1885.
thanks Debbie, Margot in Melbourne. 8)
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Does anybody have a marriage for Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith to Peter Bedford Keogh/Keough in either England or Australia. I know they had their first child Thomas Keough in 1859 at Burnt Creek Victoria. :)
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Hi,
I'm here in Sydney using the Melboure weather that we are currently enjoying to extend my wife's family history and have found all this amazing archive relating to Charles Goldsmith/Maria Freeman descendants.
After finding much of the family heritage independantly through the Ancestry and Familysearch sites (it's great to have confirmation!) I stumbled on all this information. Although I had found 3 of her siblings arrived in Australia, I am stunned to find so many of her siblings found their way to the antipodes.
My wife is descended from Sarah Ellen Goldsmith through her 2nd marriage to William Charles CRUMP (m NSW 1871). They had 5 daughters, 2 of whom died in infancy.
It would be wonderful to make contact with some of her distant cousins, and I'd be happy to share details of her branch of the Goldsmith clan with any of you who might be part of the extended family.
Cheers
John Middleton
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Hi John, good to find another Goldsmith relative - mine was Maria Ann Goldsmith who 'married' Jabez Janes.
daughter of Charles Goldsmith and Maria Freeman. am happy to share with you.
Margot in Melbourne. (see my earlier posts....)
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Hi John I would love any details on Sarah Goldsmith, I had lost her after 1867 in Victoria, you can email me at * Cheers Deb
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Hi Deb and Margot,
Here is the Additional info on Sarah Goldsmith/Hall/Crump:
1. SARAH ELLEN GOLDSMITH (CHARLES, EDWARD) was born 7 August 1846 in St Lawrence, Ramsgate, Kent England, and died 1924 in Mosman #7362/1924. She married (1) HENRY HALL 22 April 1865 in Trinity Church, Williamstown, Victoria #1442. He was born 1810 in Stockport, Cheshire, England. She married (2) WILLIAM CHARLES CRUMP 15 June 1871 in Sydney, NSW, son of WILLIAM CRUMP and SUSANNAH MUSKETT. He was born 21 December 1842 in St Alphage, Greenwich, Kent, and died Abt. 1925 in Beecroft #8151/1925.
Children of SARAH GOLDSMITH and HENRY HALL are:
i. SARAH ELLEN (ELLEN GOLDSMITH) HALL, b. 1867, Williamstown Vic # 19081; d. 1882, Sydney #1583/1882.
ii. HENRY WALTER HALL, b. 1866, Williamstown Vic #5587.
iii. WALTER HENRY HALL, b. 1865; d. 1865.
Children of SARAH GOLDSMITH and WILLIAM CRUMP are:
iv. EMILY SARAH CRUMP, b. 29 April 1872; d. February 1873, Gulgong NSW.
v. EMILY SARAH CRUMP, b. 2 May 1874; d. 24 January 1878.
vi. ESTHER CRUMP, b. 10 August 1876; m. GEORGE BRIDAL ROWE, 1 October 1902, "Rubine" 38 Grafton St, Woollahra, NSW.
vii. RUTH CRUMP, b. 6 March 1882; m. WILLIAM HENRY RICHARDSON, 9 July 1908, "Eltham" Beecroft Rd, Beecroft NSW.
viii. ALICE MAY CRUMP, b. 23 July 1888, Darlinghurst NSW Reg 2639/1888; m. (1) BERTRAM HENRY FRANK COLLIER, 22 March 1913, Orange Reg 2549/1913; b. 12 August 1885, Newcastle Reg 29079/1858; d. 23 July 1916, Active Duty, The Somme; m. (2) ARCHIBALD C GAIN, 1921, Sydney, NSW; d. 21 July 1945, Sydney.
Cheers
John in a very wet Sydney
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Hi John, Thanks heaps for the info. It has filled a few gaps.
Cheers Deb from a soggy Muckleford Vic :)
Let me know if I can supply any more info on family here in Vic
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thanks John & Deb - always good to find more info - mine also lived in Williamstown .. thanx from Margot in not so wet Melbourne... :-*
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Glad it has filled in some gaps. I can give you dome more details directly once I qualify for PM system.
Cheers
john m
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Great John, will look forward to more info, you have started me off again researching family.
Cheers Deb :)
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ah John nothing like being a PM....!!! ;)
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Good morning Middo, -- at least it is here( western UK)
Welcome to the great furtle !!
My connection to the GOLDSMITHS comes via Jane Goldsmith, born Ramsgate 1825 to Jarman Goldsmith (1787-1855) and Francis Betts Atherden.
Jarman was the brother of Edward who married Maria Freeman.
It appears that whilst most of Jarman's family remained rooted in the UK significant parts of Edwards family emigrated.
I would be more than willing to e-mail such info as I have if you have a family history program with a GEDCOM facility.
Incidentally , where do your Middleton connections come from? as I have connections to that surname from Horncastle, Lincolnshire.
Regards
Roger M Evans
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Many thanks for the extra info Margot.
From one of those left behind in Blighty!
:) xx
Hello :)
My name is Daniella Smithers,
My ggg grandfather is Alfred Thomas Smithers, i believe to be your profile picture :) I am currently researching the Smithers line and the Goldsmith line and any information would be fantastic!
I also only have the one picture of Alfred and none of his family, it would be lovely to see other photos from that side of the family!
Kind Regards
Dani
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Dani,
What do you know and who is your starting point?
You will note that there a number of us with varying degrees of knowledge but between us a fairly comprehensive knowledge.
All new connections warmly received
Roger
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Hi,
Basically I know up to Augustine Smithers (1710-1785) who married Mary Knot :)
My lineage is as follows
- me
- Andrew Smithers
- Noel Thomas Smithers
- William Cassel Smithers
- William Smithers
- Alfred Thomas Smithers (1843-1933) Who marrried Sarah A Goldsmith
From there i continue to Augustine Smithers but i also go on to find relatives of Sarah A Goldsmith. I have gone so far as her g grandfather Edward Goldsmith (1762-1838).
I am an ancestor through his son Jarman Goldsmith, who i know very little information about. Only that he was in prison for 8 months for theft. He also married Francis Betts Anderton, who i further dont know anything about.
Would you be able to shed some light on these people, and also give me information on who Augustines parents could be? :)
Any help will be very much appreciated
Dani
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Dani,
If you have the family back to those you mention I don't think I can help much at all as I will only be duplicating what you already appear to have.
I knew nothing about the Smithers marriage so that your family are new to me.
What info do you have on Alfred Thomas Smithers, I could perhaps start from him and work back
If you want what I have I can convert into a pdf and send it but it will be a large file and there are many gaps as the Goldsmiths are not my main interest in Kent
Regards
Roger
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Hello. My wife is a Great Granddaughter of Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith and Peter Bedford Keough. They never married as far as I can tell. I have researched them extensively and have the main tree on Ancestry. Are you on Ancestry? Also have 3 DNA kits on Ancestry, MyHeritage, Gedmatch and FTdna.
Peter KEHOE was tried in Wicklow town on 7 Jul 1846 by Baron Pennefather for the crime of Rape. Convicted and sentenced to 10 years. He was described as single, age 17, Roman Catholic, could read and write and a Shoemaker. He spent 3 months in Dublin’s Mountjoy Prison, then via Smithfield Male Convict Depot before boarding the convict ship “Tory”. His conduct in gaol reported as very good. The Tory departed Kingstown Harbour 11 Nov 1846, arrived Hobart, Van Diemen’s Land (Tasmania) 4 months later on 18 Mar 1847. He was then on a 2-year Probation Period at Maria Island, Tasmania before being granted his Ticket of Leave in May 1850. He was approved to marry Teresa Burrows (aka Preston), a female convict from Dublin. They married on 14 Jul 1851 in Hobart, Tasmania, but no children. They separated in about 1853 or 1854, when she was granted a Certificate of Freedom and appears to have fallen pregnant to another man, Thomas Walker.
Peter made his way north across Bass Straight to the Victorian goldfields, where he used the name Peter Bedford KEOUGH for the remainder of his life. By 1856 he had partnered with Elizabeth Pullen Goldsmith (my wife Catherine's Great Grandmother). They settled near Bendigo on the goldfields and had 7 children, 5 survived to marry; one being Caroline Esther (Grandmother) and produce grandchildren: one being my wife’s mother, Minnie Crilly. Peter Keough died in Bendigo in 1903 at the age of 74.
Elizabeth's sister Maria similarly never married Jabez James Janes. In 1870 he was charged on warrant with deserting his 5 illegitimate children by Maria. We have many many DNA matches to the Goldsmith descendants, but few that can be mapped for the Kehoe side. I have all the brith and death certificates.
I was alerted to this Roots Chat on a Facebook Wicklow Genealogy group post where I was inquiring about Peter.
Cheers