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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 17 May 11 10:05 BST (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt........ It's a bit complicated, so do make sure you read it through.
Good Luck and Good Hunting
Barbara
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Looking for the origins of Ann Collingwood and her brother Henry in the late 18th century. Where were they from? I think the family was wealthy – where did the money come from? What’s the India connection? Any connection (other than Ann’s 2nd marriage) with the burgeoning textile industries of the Midlands?
Here’s what I know so far.
Ann Collingwood m Richard Clough 23.10.1793 at St Martin’s, Leicester.
Then Ann Clough, widow, married William Rawson, 17.7.1798, St Martin’s, Leicester.
William’s family were wealthy hosiers; he died in 1832 and left the bulk of his estate to Ann. Ann died in Leicester in 1837-38; she may have inherited from her own family as well as from her husband as her will mentions property and land in Leicester, Great Peatling, Peckleton, Desford, Gt Wigston, Matlock and the Disafforested Forest – the last is the only part of the estate separately mentioned in William’s will previously.
She appears to have had no children. The bulk of her estate went to her nephew, Henry Salkeld James Collingwood, who according to the will was the only child of her deceased brother Henry Collingwood. (I’ll call him HSJ). Other beneficiaries were Mary Ann and Eliza, the daughters of Thomas Allsop Winny late of London; her sister in law (Henry’s widow) Ann Stocks and Ann’s daughter Frances, of Wakefield. (Ann Frew/Collingwood m Samuel Stocks in Leicester in 1822 – were the Collingwoods from Leicester originally or was she just visiting her sister in law? And where do the Winnys fit in?)
This would appear to be Ann’s brother, Henry:
Henry Collingwood m Ann Frew August 1806, Cawnpore, Bengal
Then we have Henry Salkeld James Collingwood born 18.1.1807, baptised 17.2.1807, Calcutta, Bengal
HSJ married Jane Ward in 1829 in Matlock (note Ann bequeathed Matlock property after this date). He was living at Ulley Hall, near Rotherham, at the time. HSJ’s oldest daughter was baptised Catherine Ann Rawson Collingwood in 1831 – any other Rawson links or just named after a generous aunt? Most of his subsequent children were baptised in Cromford (in the church opposite Arkwright’s mill) and the family is traceable in censuses in Matlock, then North Wales and the Birmingham area. HSJ’s name also turned up as a landowner on a tithe map for Desford in the 1840’s (possibly land inherited from his aunt?)
But I want to look backwards, to Ann and to HSJ’s father Henry – can anyone help unravel their background, as per my first paragraph? Many thanks!
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Hello folks!
Thanks for looking at this, I'll be interested to see if anyone can come up with anthing extra!
I'm at work and don't have my notes with me. I'll try to keep peeking in on the thread and answer any q's as soon as I can but may need to wair until this evening if I need my notes for any queries.
once again, thanks to anyone who has a bash at this!
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I'll have a good look later, but as you realize because of Arkwright's Mill at Cromford the surrounding area was heavily involved in the textile industry in the late 1700's early 1800's.
I wonder if Henry was sourcing cotton in India?
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Looks like the cotton was imported from India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton
Arkwright gets a mention.
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Basically Cromford was Arkwright's mill and nothing else.
http://www.derbyshireuk.net/cromford.html
So Henry had to have a connection.
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Just a couple of thoughts at the moment women didn’t really inherit from their family there husbands were expected to provide form them
It is likely she didn’t have children however the estate may have passed onto her nephew being the only male descendant at that time or the eldest to keep the property in the family.
If Henry was in the army the British army records in India are held at the British library in London it was encouraged for the British to marry Indians to prevent an Indian uprising.
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There were several mills along the river at Cromford/Matlock (I have names of other millowners at home) -- Arkwright's was the first.
Of course, I don't actually know if Henry or HSJ had any connection with this line of trade. I don't know what the Matlock connection was (Ann owned property or land in Matlock which she left to HSJ - but how did she come to own it?) HSJ had the links to marry into a Matlock family but wasn't living there himself at the time of his marriage - but did his family come from there?
But it seems certain that the mills are where the money was made in the area - so far it's only been a leap of faith to suppose that there may have been a connection with the Collingwoods (plus Ann marrying a man involved in textile manufacture in leicester - I think many of these millowners in the midlands would have known each other, and the Rawsons worked a mill in Leicester in the 18th century)
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I haven't found any births for William and Ann Rawson; Ann did leave bequests to other women in her will (as per first post); William's will named umpteen neices and nephews but no children -- so I really think they were childless.
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Henry COLLINGWOOD
Event type: Marriage
Start date: 09 Aug
Start year: 1806
End date:
End year:
Location: Cawnpore
Spouse: Ann FREW
Age:
Status: Cdctr., <<<<<<<< Anyone understand this?
Ord.Parents:
Notes:
Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office
Records Reference:
N/1/7 f.210.
Source name:
Source year:
Source edition:
Presidency: Bengal
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Status: Cdctr., <<<<<<<< Anyone understand this?
heaven knows! or maybe some rootschatter does ---
camp doctor? lol
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Re Thomas Allsop Winny Does late of London mean hes recently moved from London or he recently died but lived in London ?
And on to my favourite subject Tax !
Everybody had to pay tax (although some property was exempt i.e. the ones used for business but this was recorded as such in the records) and the records of which are in the treasury section at TNA
I have more details on how to search them at home and will post later .
I have asked Mike in Leicester to look up those marriages to see if there was any further details given hes very good at that ! ;D
i suspect you will find further details ont he land at Leicester Records Office
too
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A few records on the India Office website.
http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/NonTabBriefDisplay.aspx?SearchType=AdvanceSearch
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Burial for Thomas Allsop Winny.
Thomas Allsop Winny
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1828
Burial Date: 14 Jun 1828
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1771
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
County: Middlesex
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Thomas Alsop Winny bachelor OTP married Mary Springett OTSP spinster 25 Jan 1803 St Marylebone Westminster by banns both signed
Wits: Jane …ing and Margaritt [sic] Collingwood
Thomas Allsop Winny was buried 14 June 1828 aged 57 at St Marylebone Westminster he was of 91? Portland Street
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Greeting’s…Folks.
Ann’s 1st Marriage was conducted by Banns.
And seeing the early date There might not have very much
Details…. eg. …..Bachelor / Spinster. And place of dwelling at time of Marriage
Wits ( if shown ) might not throw any light on the subject. ….
But her second Marriage to Wm. Rawson was conducted by LICENCE.
Therefore the affidavit for the bonds held at the Records Office
will give us more details………
But I’m not due to be at the Records Office until next week now. …..
MIKE. ……
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Thomas Alsop Winny bachelor OTP married Mary Springett OTSP spinster 25 Jan 1803 St Marylebone Westminster by banns both signed
Wits: Jane …ing and Margaritt [sic] Collingwood
Thomas Allsop Winny was buried 14 June 1828 aged 57 at St Marylebone Westminster he was of 91? Portland Street
From National Archives Sun Insurance.
title]
MS 11936/499/1012023 17 December 1823
Contents:
Insured: Thomas Alsop Winny of 26 Great Portland Street saddler
Other property or occupiers: 8 Bridgewater Street Somers Town
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thats brilliant Mike thank you :)
added
the sun insurance fire records are at LMA i've been there!
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I would have thought Thomas left a will, just finding it.
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Greeting’s Again…Folks.
Rawson Burials worth of note. ….
St Margaret’s Parish Church. Leicester.
1831.
Burial entry No. 137.
William Rawson.
Abode. ….Leicester.
21st. November.
Aged. ….65.
1837.
Burial entry No’. 8.
Ann Rawson.
Abode……Leicester.
7th. September.
Aged. ….62.
Therefore doubt if there would not have been any children of this marriage.
MIKE. ……
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William Rawson was active in the non-conformist movement so if there were any children, they would probably have undergone non-con baptism.
But - I haven't found them if there were.
William's will was brilliant for a geneologist- it named all his sibs, their spouses and lots of their children. he was generous to them all. I would therefore have thought that if he and Ann had any surviving children, one or the other will would have mentioned them.
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Mary Ann Eliza (one person) Winny b. 7 oct 1829 bp. 11 April 1830 s/o Thomas & Mary Ann he was a bricklayer they lived at Collingwood street
Henry Collingwood Winny wasb. 24th May 1831 bp. 19 Jun 1831 d/o Thomas & mary Ann
at Bethnal Green St Matthew
he was a brick layer and they lived at Collingwood street (coincidence!)
other children
Thomas HUmphries Winny b. 19 Feb 1828 bp. 6 Apr 1828 address occ as before
James b. 11 Sept 1832 bp. 7 Oct 1832 ditto
William b. 11 Jan 1834 bp. 2 Feb 1834 do.
JOhn b. 15 June 1835 bp. 19 July 1835
Henry b. 30 May 1837 bp. 9 July 1837
only onetwo problem is that Thomas died in 1828 and he was of Portland Street not Collingwood Street
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Ann would have been 39 when she married William Rawson and 34 when she married Richard Clough going on her age at burial
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Mary Ann Eliza (one person) Winny b. 7 oct 1829 bp. 11 April 1830 s/o Thomas & Mary Ann he was a bricklayer they lived at Collingwood street
Henry Collingwood Winny wasb. 24th May 1831 bp. 19 Jun 1831 d/o Thomas & mary Ann
at Bethnal Green St Matthew
he was a brick layer and they lived at Collingwood street (coincidence!)
other children
Thomas HUmphries Winny b. 19 Feb 1828 bp. 6 Apr 1828 address occ as before
James b. 11 Sept 1832 bp. 7 Oct 1832 ditto
William b. 11 Jan 1834 bp. 2 Feb 1834 do.
JOhn b. 15 June 1835 bp. 19 July 1835
Henry b. 30 May 1837 bp. 9 July 1837
only onetwo problem is that Thomas died in 1828 and he was of Portland Street not Collingwood Street
i think these children belong to Thomas Winny who married Mary Ann Humphries 6 Aug 1826 at St Andrew Holborn
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is this your website?
http://www.ulleyweb.co.uk/genea/salkeld.htm
HenrySJCollingwood was at Matlock in 1848 too http://andrewspages.dial.pipex.com/matlock/dir/kelly1848.htm
his probate was 1870 in cornwall i suppose you have that
http://johnson-wilcock.com/opc/wills/PROBATE.1870-1879.FORMATTED.htm
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HSJC's house.
http://www.andrewspages.dial.pipex.com/matlock/pix/matlockdale_hightorguesthouse.htm
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No, that's not my webpage but I have seen it.
He was in Matlock in 1851 too, I think, but for some reason is k/a Frederick Collingwood on the census return - the age and childrens names fit though.
I don't have HSJ's will; I knew he died in Cornwall, he'd remarried about 3 years before then IIRC, but I haven't got the certs or will copies as I didn't think that would help me look back to his parents or grandparents.
On a different tangent, I wonder if Margaret Collingwood who married Thos Allsop Winny was Ann's sister? That would make Mary Ann and Eliza her neices (and they are definitely named as 2 seperate people in the will). However she states categorically that HSJ is her nephew and the only child of her brother; she doesn't explain who the Winnys were at all.
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Margaret was a witness to Thomas Alsop Winnys wedding not the bride i think there is most likely to be a connection there though
HSJC will may show his parents if they were still alive
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do you wonder where teh name Salkeld came from ?
i've been googling it
Transactions of the Cumberland & Westmorland Antiquarian & Archeological Society
The younger Margaret returned to Whitehall, but she had no children and her husband Henry turned out to be the last male in the line of the Salkelds of Whitehall. On his death in 1749 he left the Salkeld estates to Margaret,
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Mary Ann Winny
Baptism Date: 27 Nov 1803
St Marylebone Middlesex Westminster
Parents Thos Alsop Winny & Mary Winny
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Yes, i wondered if the Salkeld name (which is quite unusual) held any clues but I hadn't managed to find any!
One other small snippet, probably come to nothing but I'll throw it in the pot:
tithe map of Desford, Leicestershire , 1840's (exact date not noted)
showed HSJ as owner of 2 plots or houses formerly occupied by John Gutteridge
These may be some of the estate inherited from Ann - and she may have inherited them from the Collingwood side as I've never found a mention of Desford in any other rawson wills.
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From A2A (Cumbria Record Office) relating to the Salkelds Toni found "Salkeld Clients D HUD 9" "... Margaret nee Charlton of Hesleyside nr Bellingham in Northumberland born at Newcastle in 1716 married her cousin Dr Henry Salkeld in London,1737, no children; lived at Whitehall,Cumberland till his death in 1749......" It looks like a fascinating collection of documents if there is a link between this Salkeld family and the Collingwoods.
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I have found various snippets re Salkelds in my hunt before "going live" with this Hunt, but not been able to tie the Salkeld and Collingwood names together so if anyone can I will be v interested!
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Margaret was a witness to Thomas Alsop Winnys wedding not the bride i think there is most likely to be a connection there though
HSJC will may show his parents if they were still alive
Francis Collingwood married Margaret Winny by licence 24 April 1802 St.Marylebone. Can't read the names of the witnesses :(
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Possible Will for Francis on TNA Online Document PROB 11/1639 Francis Collingwood S. Marylebone 1821
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I've got Francis Collingwood's will, it appears to be the right family but doesn't tell me much more!
Francis Collingwood of Gt Portland St, marylebone, left everything to his wife Margaret, who was also executrix.
Witnesses were James and Elizabeth Shaddack and, more importantly, Thomas Alsop Winny :)
Unfortunately the download is incomplete so I don't know when it was proved or how much it was worth. I've emailed NA to ask them to correct this.
I'll try to do a summary soon of what we now seem to know about the Collingwood/Winny families unless anyone else fancies summarising for me in the meantime!
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Thomas Alsop Winny's baptism from Familysearch.
Image is not available online.
Search collection
About this collection
Name: Thomas Alsop Winny
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 09 Jan 1771
Baptism/Christening Place: Nayland, Suffolk, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Winny
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Winny
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01732-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 887389
Reference Number:
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Alsop used again.
John Alsop Winny
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 18 Dec 1799
Baptism/Christening Place: Parish of Nayland, Co. of Suffolk, England
Birth Date: 02 Oct 1799
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Winny
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Eliz. Winny
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03851-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 887401
Reference Number: no 22
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There are Alsop Winnys in Suffolk well into the 19th century including a Thomas, but I don't know if this is the same family or what their links are to the Collingwoods.
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Doesn't help with going back but from The Gentlemans Magazine vol 77 part 1 "26 Aug 1805 or 6 At Cawnpore in the East Indies in the 33rd year of his age Mr Henry Collingwood brother to Mrs Wm.Rawson of Leicester"
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There are Alsop Winnys in Suffolk well into the 19th century including a Thomas, but I don't know if this is the same family or what their links are to the Collingwoods.
This is an old (2006) post from Curious Fox.
WINNY
Researching my WINNY ancestors in Nayland, Stoke-by-Nayland, Assington, & Wissington (direct line currently traced back to 18th century John WINNY and Elizabeth TRIGGS). I am also interested in any other related or unrelated WINNY, WINNEY or WHINNEY.
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I'm guessing that was Henry's marraige and confirms that he was indeed Ann's brother - but I have never seen a man described with reference to his sister before in items from that era!
OK, a round up as I see it:
Ann Collingwood m Richard Clough in 1793 n leicester then Wm Rawson in 1798 in Leicester
her brother Henry m Ann Frew in 1806(?) in India; died before 1822; his widow remarried in 1822 in leicester
Ann Rawson nee Collingwood left bequests to the daughters of Thomas Alsop Winny
Francis Collingwood m Margaret Winny in Marylebone
Thomas Alsop Winny was witness to Francis's will
Margaret Collingwood was witness to Thomas Alsop's marraige (I'm guessing Thomas and Margaret were siblings)
So clearly there were close links between the families but no proven blood links.
Confirmed areas of interest so far = Matlock/Cromford, Leicester, Bengal and Marylebone
Have I missed anything? Lots of interesting stuff around the turn of the 18-19th century but no more yet!
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Looks like a couple of Henry Collingwood deaths on the India Office website.
This one.
Name: Henry COLLINGWOOD
Event type: Death
Date: 27 AugYear: 1806
Location: Cawnpore
Age:
Status: Cdctr, Ben Ord Dept|<<<<<<<<<
Will administration:
Notes: Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office
Records Reference:
Source name: East India Register 1807-2Source year:
Source edition:
Presidency:
A few weeks after the wedding??
The next one isn't until 1830.
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Ord = ordnance? Army?
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Ord = ordnance? Army?
1845 East-India Register & Army List - Bengal Ordnance Commissariat Department
Mr. Robert TILBURY appointed to the rank of Conductor, 14th December 1839, to Allahabad station.
Different people but it looks like it.
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Annie have you used this website?
http://www.new.fibis.org/
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From A2A (Cumbria Record Office) relating to the Salkelds Toni found "Salkeld Clients D HUD 9" "... Margaret nee Charlton of Hesleyside nr Bellingham in Northumberland born at Newcastle in 1716 married her cousin Dr Henry Salkeld in London,1737, no children; lived at Whitehall,Cumberland till his death in 1749......" It looks like a fascinating collection of documents if there is a link between this Salkeld family and the Collingwoods.
Henry seems to have been the last of the (direct) Salkeld line thus i would have though that any property would have been passed down to cousins or the like and the name inherited that way
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Looks like a couple of Henry Collingwood deaths on the India Office website.
This one.
Name: Henry COLLINGWOOD
Event type: Death
Date: 27 AugYear: 1806
Location: Cawnpore
Age:
Status: Cdctr, Ben Ord Dept|<<<<<<<<<
Will administration:
Notes: Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office
Records Reference:
Source name: East India Register 1807-2Source year:
Source edition:
Presidency:
A few weeks after the wedding??
The next one isn't until 1830.
when was Henry jnr born ?
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name: Margarett Winny
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 23 Jul 1769
baptism/christening place: Nayland, Suffolk, England
father's name: John Winny
mother's name: Elizabeth
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name: Margarett Winny
gender: Female
burial date: 29 Apr 1770
burial place: Nayland, Suffolk, England:
father's name: John Winny
mother's name: Elizabeth
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Henry jnr (HSJ) was born Jan 1807. His mum must have been pregnant when she married at the beginning of August 1806 and HSJ was the only child (it says so in Ann's will).So it's not impossible, though very unfortunate, for his father to have died 3 weeks after the wedding.
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Looked at Thomas Alsop Winny's will. There are no Collingwood clues there (although Margaret Collingwood witnessed the will). He does mention his property in Nayland so that is clearly the correct family; I am not sure it gets us any further with the Collingwoods.
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that would probably explain why he was an only child
i have found some more children of JOhn & Eliz Winny i suspect the connection to the Collingwoods is that Margaret married Francis as found previously but not the Margaret i found as she appears to have died as a baby.
name: Elizabeth Winney
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 06 May 1767
baptism/christening place: Nayland, Suffolk, England
father's name: John Winney
mother's name: Elizabeth Winney
name: Susan Winney
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 04 May 1768
baptism/christening place: Nayland, Suffolk, England
father's name: John Winney
mother's name: Elizabeth Winney
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; I am not sure it gets us any further with the Collingwoods.
except for the fact of Margaret Collingwood nee Winny and her husband Francis we didn't know about him before
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So that must have been a life changing few weeks for Ann.
She wouldn't know for sure that she was pregnant until late June/early July. Time to tell Henry, get the banns read and married early August, then widowed 3 weeks later.
Now did she stay in India or come back soon after Henry jnr's birth to England? Did she get some form of pension? What did she live on until 1822? How did she educate Henry?
More questions than answers.
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maybe Ann (Colingwood) stepped in maybe Ann Frew couldn't remarry until Henry reached a certain age
did Margaret and Francis have children?
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I wonder if Ann Frew/Collingwood went back to England and yes, stayed with the Rawsons, and HSJ grew up with them - it might account for the close relationship he obviously had with his aunt.
Edited to add - There's no mention of children on the will and I can't see any on familysearch.
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Now we know Henry died so soon after the marriage and so early into Ann's pregnancy you wonder how much of his influence there was in Henry jnr's christian names.
They could have come from Ann's family or could have been the names of people who had helped her in India, I wonder if she did in fact know much about the Collingwood family?
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Hmm
So Henry was b around 1773 (in his 33rd year when he married)
Ann around 1775 (from her age at death)
Francis ?
Using Familysearch, the closest matches I can find are
Henry - bapt 1774, Rutland, father Francis
Ann bapt 1776 Rutland, father Francis
another Ann bapt 1774 father Thomas (I'd guess Thomas and Francis, the 2 fathers, may have been brothers)
another Ann bapt 1776, York, father Henry
another Ann bapt 1774, Durham, father George
but there is no Francis that would tie these together. There is a Francis bapt 1780, Rutland, father Thomas but I'm not sure that that helps :-\ Who were these Rutland Collingwoods? They may have snuck west into Leicester ---
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thinking outside the box
the Collingwoods had money - correct
starting in about 1696 registers of voters in England and Wales have been published aka poll books
produced after each parliamentary election and listed the name addresses and qualifying properties of entitled forty shilling free holders together with the names of the candidates they supported.
can you find some of these poll books and look for the property as opposed to the person who owned it pre Ann Collingwood and co.?
there is a book 'poll books and lists 1696-1872 a directory of holdings in Great Britain by J Gibson and C Rogers
this may help of you can locate a copy.
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ditto directories but not so easily these werent published frequently until the 1800's
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Do you mean for the Desford property, Toni? But I thought the poll books gave the address at which the person lived, not the owner of the property (I have looked at these before to track some of the Rawsons) and of course, I don't know where the Collingwoods came from --- arrgghh!
Hm again. We , or I, have supposed that Francis was brother to Ann and Henry but has anything shown that or is it just a presumption? Maybe he was a cousin instead?
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From FreeREG
bp. 11 June 1787 Francis Collingwood St Nicholas Leicester s/o John & Eliz
(not sure that helps very much)
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just saw your reply
i understood it that the poll books would list the qualifying properties of the person i.e. did they own land or earnt so much in a year ? was over 21
however i was referring to perhaps if you could find one of the properties mentioned in your will with a Collingwood in residence ?
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It doesn't mention individual properties :(
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ok so thats a no go then
how about this
MOTON OF PECKLETON, LEICS
ARMS: Argent a cinquefoil azure [VIS.LEICS.1619]
CREST:
This account is not well documented and not satisfcatory.
VIS.LEICS.1619 gives earlier generations as Alexander ... William (and brother Henry) ... Ralph (and wife Julian) ... Robert (and wife Sarah) (below)
Robert Moton of Peckleton, Leics c1219-
m Sarah Yorkshire
chn: William Moton below
William Moton of Peckleton, Leics c1244-a1297
IPM (1297)
chn: ?William Moton below
?William Moton of Peckleton, Leics c1270-....
chn: William Moton ?below
Thomas Moton m Eleanor .....; (held Wilbrighton for life): Both (living) 1334
[?] Emma Moton m Robert Clifton of Clifton-upon-Trent, Notts c1299-....
[THROSBY I 104]
Simon Moton
Henry Moton (Archdeacon, Stowe) 1334/5
Sir William Moton of Peckleton, Leics Knight c1294-
m1 a6 Nov 1327 Joan Inge dau and heir of William Inge (Chief Justice of the King's
Bench) c1257-1321 [FOSS] and Margery Grapenel dau and coheir=b of Henry Grapenel
[PFTPR 14 109]; b c1299; m1 aJun 1322 Eon Zouche a1298-1326 [CP] (1st
son of William Zouche 1st Baron Zouche (of Haryngworth) 1276-1352 [CP]); (and had
chn: William 2nd Baron Zouche (of Haryngworth) a1321-1382 [CP]; (aged 22-3) 1322;
(living) 15 Jun 1344; d aJan 1359.60
m2 Elizabeth .....; d aMich 1362
(lord of 1/2 Wilbrighton, until conveyed to Sir William Shareshill) 1334
(aged 60) 1354
chn: William Moton below
Sir Robert Moton of Peckleton, Leics Knight c1327-1367
m Alice Bassett dau of Ralph Bassett "5th Baron Basset of Sapcote" c1319-1378 QV;
b c1349; (aged 30+) 1378 [IPM]; m2 a1378 Sir Laurence Dutton of Dutton, Cheshire
Knight c1339-1393 QV; d 19 May 1390 [IPM]; IPM (Rutland) 20 May 1390/1 Jul 1390
[846]
d 19 Jul 1367
(on the death of Ralph Bassett, the manor of Cheadle passed to his daughters Alice wife of Sir Robert Moton Knight of Peckleton and Elizabeth wife of Richard, Lord Grey of Codnor) 1378 [SHC 1926] [IPM Ralph Bassett 1378.9]
chn: William Moton b c1366 below
[?] Robert Moton b c1377; (aged 16+) ?1393 [IPM] below
[?] Alan Moton (living) 1418-9; (as of Stapleton, Leics armiger, sued by William
Repyngton for counterfeiting his seal) 1443-4 [SHC NS III]
Sir William Moton of Peckleton, Leics Knight c1366-1391
m Agnes .....; d 1393-4
d 12 Oct 1391
IPM (Bucks, Leics, Northants, Warwicks) 1392-3
(as a Knight, heir of his mother Alice) 1390 [IPM]
_____________________________________________________________________________________
VIS.LEICS.1619 58-9 make William (above) father of Robert (below)
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Sir Robert Moton of Peckleton, Leics Knight c1377-1456
m1 c1395 Margaret Mallory dau of Sir Anketine Mallory of Kirkby Mallory, Leics
c1333-1393
m2 Elizabeth Mulsho dau of Sir Edmund Mulsho of Thingdon, NorthantsKnight; m1 Baldwin
Bugge of Thurlaston, Leics; (but had no chn)
d 1456
(aged 17) 1391; (in wardship of Sir Walter Blount, a retainer of John of Gaunt) c1391-1395; (Knight of the Shire, Leics) 1422; (sued Elena Mille widow of John atte Mill of Cheadle) 1431/32 [XVII]; (Sheriff, Leics and Warwicks) 8 Nov 1451; (with his wife Elizabeth, settled the manors of Cheadle and Peckleton on their heirs) 1451/52 [1926]; (with Elizabeth his wife, sued for the manor of Cheadle) 1455-6 [NS III]; (his widow Elizabeth, held no land in Leics) 1468/69 [IPM] [see: Roskell, J.S. THE COMMONS IN THE PARLIAMENT OF 1422]
chn: Reginald Moton b c1396 below
[?] Alice Moton m William Bassett of Blore Ray c1413-a1465 QV
Margery Moton m William Purefoy of Shirford
[2] William Moton b c1430 below
Ann Moton (a nun at Gracedieu, Leics)
Hawise Moton m Thomas Beaumont
Reginald Moton of Peckleton, Leics c1396-1444
m Margaret Bugge dau and heir=b of Edmund Bugge of Newhall in Thurlaston, Leics
c1365-a1411 QV; m1 Richard Turville of Aston Flamville, Leics; m3 a1456 Thomas
Everingham; d 1474 [PFTPR 394]
IPM (Leics) 1445 as a ?Knight
(was bequeathed 100 marks by Joan Beauchamp Dame Abergavenny) 1434
chn: Ann Moton [coheir] b c1426; m William Grimsby of Dracklow c1420-?1482 QV
Elizabeth Moton [coheir] b c1426; m Ralph Pole of Radbourne, Derbys c1421-1491
QV
____________________________________________________________________________________
William Moton of Peckleton, Leics Esquire c1430-1482
m ..... Harcourt dau of Sir Robert Harcourt of Stanton Harcourt, Oxon K.G. 1410-1470
QV
d [? 13 Feb 1481.2]
(an indentured retainer of William Hastings Baron Hastings) 12 Dec 1475; (M.P., Leics) 1478; (Escheator, Warwicks & Leics) 1467-8; (J.P., Leics) 1470 1474-d; (Sheriff, Leics & Warwicks) 1471-2; (Commr.) 1471-3 [PARL]
chn: Robert Moton b c1455 below
Thomasin Moton m George Beaumont of Thruston
Catherine Moton
Sir Robert Moton of Peckleton, Leics Knight c1455-a1498
m Philippa Willoughby dau and heir of ..... Willoughby of Renes, Leics; m2 Thomas
Harvey
Will (PCC) 1498
chn: Edward Moton below
Elizabeth Moton [heir=b] b c1480; m Sir John Harington of Exton, Rutland Knight
c1475-a1567 [BP] [SHC 1938]; (and had chn)
Edward Moton of Peckleton, Leics Esquire c1485-a1510
(had no chn)
d 1509-10
so after this date where did Peckleton go ?
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http://www.andrewspages.dial.pipex.com/matlock/pix/matlockdale_hightorguesthouse.htm
HSJ's place at Matlock. Apparently the family wasn't connected to the battle of Trafalgar (not that i had that as a possibility!)
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thanks folks so far - am going to go and sleep on all this!
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if there was a disupte over the owenership of the property / land the documents may well be in the Chancery Court section of TNA
I think the Skaled name is relevant somehow but how I do not know after all the name apparently died out several years before Henrys birth
I wonder when Ann inherited the property obviously after 1770 and pre 1830 are there any Collingwood wills around at this time I expect there are lots) that could divulge more information
Is there a gap in the Rutland records that would account for Francis possibly being born there and not recorded?
Can we find Francis burial in St Marylebone (as that appears to be where he lived)
i think my cat has been sleeping on my clothes :-\
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I think we have worked out that Henry Collingwood snr.'s rank was Conductor, so what rank was that?
This is what Wiki says.
Conductor (Cdr) is an appointment held by a few selected Warrant Officers Class 1 in the Royal Logistic Corps and is the most senior appointment that can be held by a warrant officer in the British Army. The appointment was also reintroduced into the Royal Australian Army Ordnance Corps for selected Warrant Officers Class 1 in 2005.
So Henry wasn't an officer which I thought he would have been, looks like he was perhaps promoted through the ranks.
I have looked to see if there any any references to Frew in India before Ann's marriage but I can't see any. So how and why was she in India at that time?
I wouldn't have thought they were any single British women going out there alone. My thought would be she either went with her family or perhaps as a servant, maybe governess to another British family.
She was in her thirties when she married Henry, slightly old at that time.
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Doesn't help with going back but from The Gentlemans Magazine vol 77 part 1 "26 Aug 1805 or 6 At Cawnpore in the East Indies in the 33rd year of his age Mr Henry Collingwood brother to Mrs Wm.Rawson of Leicester"
this is from the death announcements...
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Toni, I think your cat may have slept on my head - I feel v fuzzy today.
Having slept on things I am no further forward, I've not had any bright ideas for links. I find myself wondering if the Collingwoods weren't actually gentry and if all the money came to HSJ via Ann Rawson and to her via her husband (even though his will mentions different properties altogether).
Henry's widow Ann - I haven't been able to trace her past 1841. She married Samuel Stocks and they, plus their daughter Frances, are in the 1841 census in the Wakefield area. There was a big age difference between Ann and Samuel - can't access the census right now and I can't remember what Samuel's line of work was. It's a long, long shot but if Ann Frew/Collingwood inherited from Henry, maybe she still had money when she remarried and maybe there would be a will that might give more clues? But I don't know when she died. Can anyone find her on the censuses?
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1841 wakefield
Samuel Stocks 75 ind
Ann Stocks 60
Frances Stocks 15
all NBIC
HO107; 1272; : 8; : 37; 23;
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So Sam and Ann married in Leicester.
Image is not available online.
Search collection
About this collection
Groom's Name: Samuel Stocks
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Ann Collingwood
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 22 Jul 1822
Marriage Place: St Margaret, Leicester, Leicester, England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04516-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1656180
Reference Number: 288
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Looks like Frances was born in Lancashire
Frances Stocks bap 27 May 1824 Chorlton-upon-Medlock, Lancashire
b 30 Mar 1824
daughter of Samuel & Ann Stocks
Only thing that bothers me is that if Ann was 33 in 1806 she was very old to give birth to Frances in 1824.
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St Margarets records are available on leicestershireroots.org if you can find the website
Samuel was of independent means - obviously he could afford then not to work.
i have not found them in 1851 nor a possible death for Ann but i did find this however as ages werent given pre 1866 its a long shot!
Deaths Dec 1850
STOCKS Samuel Wakefield 22 327 or 527
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this looks promising but no further details are given
Francis Collingwood
Burial 17 Feb 1820St Marylebone
Age: 50
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this looks good too
Margaret Collingwood
Burial 22 Sep 1828 St Marylebone
Age: 52
this time it gives her abode
Great Portland Street
:)
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Will of Margaret Collingwood, Widow of Strand , Middlesex 13 October 1828 PROB 11/1746
Image details
Description Will of Margaret Collingwood, Widow of Strand , Middlesex
Date 13 October 1828
Catalogue reference PROB 11/1746
Dept Records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury
Series Prerogative Court of Canterbury and related Probate Jurisdictions: Will Registers
Piece Name of Register: Sutton Quire Numbers: 551 - 600
Image contains 1 will of many for the catalogue reference
Number of image files: 1
Image Reference Format and Version Part Number Size (KB) Number of Pages Price (£)
265 / 241 PDF 1 1 485 2 3.50
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I've seen Francis's will, I think I mentioned it a few pages back - it just says everything to go to Margaret and she's the only executor, with Thomas Alsop Winny one of the witnesses.
I'm getting lost - where did we get an age of 33 for Ann when she married Henry C? The 1841 census would suggest an age of 45 when Frances was born (give or take!) and that's more feasible, especially in the first flush of new marraige ;)
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I'm getting lost - where did we get an age of 33 for Ann when she married Henry C?
Ann was anywhere between 60 & 64 in the 1841 census
~~
I've seen Francis's will, I think I mentioned it a few pages back - it just says everything to go to Margaret and she's the only executor, with Thomas Alsop Winny one of the witnesses.
but who did Margaret leave everything too?
Deaths Dec 1850
STOCKS Samuel Wakefield 22 327 or 527
from TNA
Will of Samuel Stocks of Wakefield , Yorkshire West Riding 08 April 1851 PROB 11/2131
Will of Samuel Stocks of Wakefield , Yorkshire 28 March 1851 PROB 11/2129
Will of Samuel Stocks of Wakefield , Yorkshire 04 November 1850 PROB 11/2122
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From the Lancaster Gazette & General Advertiser Saturday Aug 3rd 1822 "On Monday week,Samuel Stocks Esq of Ardwick to Mrs H.Collinwood,of Leicester"
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And from Jacksons Oxford Journal Sat June 10th 1848 " At Wakefield, Yorkshire Daniel Burton Kendell Esq M.B Cantab,youngest son of J.Kendell Esq of Scarthingwell Park,Ferrybridge, Yorks to Frances youngest daughter of Samuel Stocks Esq of South Parade, Wakefield"
(This announcement also appeared in The Standard,The Leeds Mercury and The Manchester Times)
Is this the right Frances Stocks?
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Following on from Jaywits point in reply 56 there's reference to a Captain Salkeld in Cawnpore in 1804 in "Papers presented to The House of Commons,Respecting the Carnatic Debts" (Google Books) so he may have been a friend of Henry's but who can say?
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And from Jacksons Oxford Journal Sat June 10th 1848 " At Wakefield, Yorkshire Daniel Burton Kendell Esq M.B Cantab,youngest son of J.Kendell Esq of Scarthingwell Park,Ferrybridge, Yorks to Frances youngest daughter of Samuel Stocks Esq of South Parade, Wakefield"
(This announcement also appeared in The Standard,The Leeds Mercury and The Manchester Times)
Is this the right Frances Stocks?
i think it is i found this marriage earlier when i found Samuel Stocks death but wasn't sure they stayed in Wakefield i looked for them in 1851
Marriages Jun 1848 Wakefield 22 573
Elliott Maria
GASCOIGNE Emma
HUTCHINSON Thomas
JONES Thomas Joseph
Kendell Daniel Burton
Pleasance James
Prest Jane
RILEY George
Stocks Frances
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thanks folks, I have to go to a Very
Boring Important Meeting now and won't be back on line for a few hours at least , will try to pick up points later!
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Thanks Toni, and it ties in with the death too "On Sunday morning at his residence,South Parade,Wakefield, Samuel Stocks Esq in the 85th year of his age" from The Morning Chronicle Oct 17 1850
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well he was 75 on the 1841 census so it has to be him :)
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i've now found them on the census and some more details about Daniel
i'll post in date order
Daniel Burton Kendell
Male
Birth Date: 1 Oct 1818
Christening Place: Leeds, Chapel-Allerton, York, Eng.
Father: John Kendell
Mother: Hannah Hall
Maternal Grandfather: Thomas Mouncey
Maternal Grandmother : Hannah Hall
Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900
Daniel Burton. Kendell
College: CAIUS
Entered: Michs. 1838
More Information: Adm. pens. (age 19) at CAIUS, Dec. 8, 1837. S. of John [upholsterer], of Leeds. B. at Chapeltown, near Leeds. Schools, private and Leeds Grammar. Matric. Michs. 1838; M.B. 1847. In practice at Wakefield, 1850-60; senior Physician, Wakefield Dispensary, and Clayton Hospital. At Scarborough in 1890. J.P. for the W. Riding of Yorks. Subsequently of Thornton House, Walton, Wakefield. Died Oct. 1, 1902. (Leeds Gr. Sch. Reg.; Venn, II. 241, and note; Medical Directories.)
possibly 1841 at no.12 Grays Inn Square with John Kendell Jnr a solicitor
Daniel is of ind.
both NBIC
HO107; 729; : 5; 19; 13; page:
not obvious in 1851
1861 RG9; 3418; 4; : 1
with 2 children and 4 servants
1871 RG10 4617 119 5
with sister Hannah M Prior and 5 servants
1881 RG11; 4573; 177; 35
with 5 servants this time
Daniel = J.P.W Riding Yorks M.B. Cantab. (Other Local)
1891 RG12; 3743; 165; 3
with daughter and 11 servants :o (do 3 people need 11 servants?)
1901 RG13; 4277; : 75; 11.
with daughter and 4 servants
1902 Q4 death
Daniel Burton Kendell
Age at Death: 84
Wakefield
: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 5
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Since Samuel and Ann's household in Wakefield in 1841 includes Jane Collingwood, aged 8 (presumably one of HSJ's daughters), this must be the correct family. On that basis, Ann cannot have been in her 30's when she married in Cawnpore, and the 1841 census age of approx 60 looks more realistic. Frews are fairly few and far between on Family Search, so how about Ann Frew b. 22nd Jan 1782, in St Marylebone Road, London, parents Mattw Frew and Elizth?
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Frances Stocks baptism from LancsOPC.
Baptism: 27 May 1824 St Luke, Chorlton upon Medlock, Lancashire, England
Frances Stocks - Child of Samuel Stocks & Ann
Born: 30 Mar 1824
Abode: Ardwick
Occupation: Gentleman
Baptised by: A.Hepworth LLB Minister
Register: Baptisms 1814 - 1861, Page 14, Entry 105
Source: LDS Film 477547
I wonder if Samuel was connected to the textile industry and knew the Arkwrights to perhaps start to explain how Henry jnr. ended up at Matlock/Cromford?
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If you go to http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/district/timeline.htm you will find reference on several documents to Samuel Stocks, formerly of Manchester, Merchant.
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If you put Samuel Stocks Manchester in search on the London Gazette website then a number of entries pop up.
Some mention Sam snr. and Sam jnr. This one I guess from 1791 is Sam snr.
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/13274/pages/36
So calico printers, I think this is beginning to come together.
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Here's an Arkwright link to Manchester at the correct time.
http://www.revealinghistories.org.uk/why-was-cotton-so-important-in-north-west-england/places/cotton-mills-ancoats-manchester.html
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So Samuel Stocks had some interest (I can't quite work out what) in Thurcroft; and HSJ was living in Ulley Hall at the time of his marraige. Ulley and Thurcroft are just a few miles from each other ---
Samuel Stocks was a calico printer, was he? And his wife's sister in law was married to a hosier --
I've found other Rawson links with bleachers from Nottingham and with textile merchants in Liverpool, though those links are perhaps a bit distant from Ann and William - but these wealthy textile families certainly seemed to have a lot of links between them!
Does millworking in Matlock/Cromford fit into this at all?
Maybe HSJ's money all came from his aunt Ann and his stepfather, and the Salkeld is not a family connection but named after a family friend, as someone suggested?
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by 1790, Richard Arkwright had several mills in Cromford, Bakewell and Cressbrook; he died in 1792. Other mills in the area were built and owned by Ellis Needham at Litton, close to Cromford; and William Newton at Cressbrook.
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http://www.chartists.net/Chartists-and-the-Corn-Laws.htm
Manchester anti-corn-law association council, 1839-41; Samuel Stocks is listed as a Wesleyan, and a manufacturer, cotton spinner and bleacher
--triple whammy! :)
this is looking quite exciting!
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My guess is that when Ann and Henry jnr. came back to England they went to Leicester to the Rawsons.
Through them and their connections she met Samuel Stokes. I wouldn't be surprised if she thought that when she married him there wouldn't be any children, he wasn't a spring chicken, but Frances came along.
Now looking at the family Frances married into they weren't short of the odd shilling, so Sam had her married into money.
Henry would be 15/16 by the time Ann remarried and looking for a career.
Sam knew the Arkwright family through his Manchester textile connections and he got Henry introduced to them.
Only a few weeks ago there was a bit of a rumpus about 'jobs for the boys' That has always gone on and thats how Henry ended up at Matlock.
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I like the story - now we just need some evidence of HSJ working in the textile trade!
BTW, I feel humbled:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KvkDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA147&dq=%22samuel+stocks%22+%2B+wesleyan&hl=en&ei=zQ3UTejeLoG38QO41-WICw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
(dont read unless you can get through several pages of mid-Victorian religiosity!)
(where's the shrinklink facility gone?!)
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They did go on a bit ;D ;D
There's only the title of this book.
Title Six letters to a trustee of Canal Street Chapel, Manchester, in answer to a pamphlet lately published by Samuel Stocks ....
Author John Pyer
Published 1830
Length 27 pages
Also is a history of Derbyshire where it says both Samuel Stocks and Richard Arkwright owned land at Crich, just up the hill from Cromford.
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those books should be available at the British Library if not elsewhere
all this is very good but its not finding Ann Collingwood (Henry & Francis) Parentage hopefully the licence by which she married William Rawson might give us some clues
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Agreed we are only skirting around the edges at the moment but as with all these hunts we may have turned up something of importance but we don't realize its significance yet.
Looking back to the beginning Ann Rawson left land in Matlock, Annie does the will give any details of this land?
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Googling around there are Rawsons in Matlock way back.
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Morning again folks and thanks for all help so far!
Wills: Ann Rawson nee Collingwood, signed 27 Feb 183, witnesses Hen. Lab, Fred. Lamb and Hen Lamb jnr (no idea who these are). No specific properties mentioned, just "all and every of my messuages lands tenements hereditaments and real estate sitate lying and being at "(and then the places Ive listed before).
I will come back later with any useful details from her husband's will. I have this Rawson family in Leicester from 1730- branches in Notts - not found any there link with Matlock.
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Since Samuel and Ann's household in Wakefield in 1841 includes Jane Collingwood, aged 8 (presumably one of HSJ's daughters), this must be the correct family. On that basis, Ann cannot have been in her 30's when she married in Cawnpore, and the 1841 census age of approx 60 looks more realistic. Frews are fairly few and far between on Family Search, so how about Ann Frew b. 22nd Jan 1782, in St Marylebone Road, London, parents Mattw Frew and Elizth?
is Jane one of HSJC daughter ?
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Morning again folks and thanks for all help so far!
Wills: Ann Rawson nee Collingwood, signed 27 Feb 183, witnesses Hen. Lab, Fred. Lamb and Hen Lamb jnr (no idea who these are). No specific properties mentioned, just "all and every of my messuages lands tenements hereditaments and real estate sitate lying and being at "(and then the places Ive listed before).
I will come back later with any useful details from her husband's will. I have this Rawson family in Leicester from 1730- branches in Notts - not found any there link with Matlock.
#
Looking at 1851 census there are 2 Henry Lambs in Leicester ( of a similar age so not father and son) One is a woolstapler born Kent the other is keeping the Horse and Jockey Inn Humbertstone Gate and born Leicestershire.
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could it be Henreitta Lamb?
~~
separately i was looking at this and wondering about a connection
http://www-leeper.ch.cam.ac.uk/FamilyTree/1131-1132.htm
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Salkeld of Little-Salkeld, Corby, Whitehall, &c. — George Salkeld, who sold the ancient family residence in the time of the civil war, is supposed to have been the last of the elder branch. Sir Richard de Salkeld became possessed of Corby in the reign of Edward III. by a grant from the crown. This branch became extinct in the male line, temp. Henry VII. when two of the five coheiresses married Salkeld of Whitehall, and Blenkinsop. The Salkelds of Whitehall were descended from a younger son of the Corby branch, who settled at Gowbarrow; not long after they became possessed of Corby. This branch, after three descents, removed to Whitehall. The Salkelds of Whitehall became extinct by the death of Dr. Henry Salkeld, a physician of York, about the middle of the last century (fn. 23) . An heiress of Hudleston and a coheiress of Berdesey, married into the Whitehall branch. The Salkelds of Ros-gill, in Westmorland, whose heiress married Christian, were descended from a younger son of the Salkelds of Corby. The name still remains in that part of Westmorland.
From: 'General history: Gentry', Magna Britannia: volume 4: Cumberland (1816), pp. LXIX-XCVIII. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=50667 Date accessed: 19 May 2011.
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i
think am pretty certain that a witness to a will could not inherit so i don't know if the Lambs will be relatives unless distance or maybe like Thomas Alsop Winny who was the brother of Margaret who married Francis Collingwood - he didn't inherti but was a relative and was a witness
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HSJC's children (to the best of my knowledge)
Catherine Ann Rawson 1831
Jane Frances 1833
Mary Isabella 1834
Henry Ward 1835
Edward Richard 1837
Blanch 1838
Frederic James 1840
Emilie Maria 1841
Caroline Teresa 1842
Alfred Bass 1844
Isabel Edith 1845
Florence Catherine Ann 1847
The first 2 born in Yorkshire (so he married Jane Ward in Cromford then moved back to Ulley, it would seem) then the rest born at Matlock/Cromford. I have been able to track most of these for a fair way but not found any links going backwards.
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So Henry was keen on bringing the Rawson name into his family giving it as a third christian name to his first child. In fact Catherine Ann Rawson.
He brings James in as well but not Salkeld with a later son
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and Frances
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LauraEJ on RC has the transcribed Rutland Parish regsiters up to 1812 it maybe worth you PM'ing her to see if she can look for Francis Collingwood with ANn and Henry
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Alfred was very young when he went to Australia.
Alfred B Collingwood
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Age: 14
Arrival Date: Dec 1858
Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia
Departure Port: Liverpool
Ship: Meteor
Nationality: English
What happened to Jane Ward/Collingwood BTW?
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Answered my own qustion about Jane. She left Henry and took some of the children to Wales.
They are here in 1861 transcribed as Collengwood.
RG9; Piece: 4296; Folio: 95; Page: 28;
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was trying to get to view Pigots directory pre 1840 but not having much luck
added for Leicesterhsire / Rutland area
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Mmmm 1851 Both Henry and Jane are in Rhyl,
HO107; Piece: 2506; Folio: 192; Page: 15
So it looks as though it was only the children at home in Matlock on the 1851 census.
So it looks as though Jane stayed in Wales, or at least went back there during the 1850s.
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I would assume that Ann inherited the land from somewhere ! not her husband but someone else
now who would leave Ann a lot of land / money ?
her brothers Henry and Francis had died so i would assume that there were no other Male Collingwoods to leave the land to
was Ann the oldest or did she have sister who also inherited ?
manorial recods may help you these are at TNA
or i would suggest again looking at Collingwood wills 1770-1830
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Henry and Jane's son Fred. J stayed in Wales, he married a Jane Jones, reused some family names for his children and in 1881 has his unmarried sister Isabel with him.
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sorry, back at work til late, not ignoring everyone! I looked again at wm rawson's will but all the named property he left was in leicester/belgrave, plus land in the disafforested forest. I've no notes with me&limited web access atm but will look here again later. I do recall of hsj's children, that catherine died in her teens & emilie died young too, & blanch went to new zealand. Back later!
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Jane Frances Collingwood married Richard Montague Preston in Wales in 1854.
She died and in 1881 Mary ( single) and Blanch ( married) are living with him in Chester.
He was a solicitor and their sons a solicitor and barrister when Richard died in 1891.
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Since Samuel and Ann's household in Wakefield in 1841 includes Jane Collingwood, aged 8 (presumably one of HSJ's daughters), this must be the correct family. On that basis, Ann cannot have been in her 30's when she married in Cawnpore, and the 1841 census age of approx 60 looks more realistic. Frews are fairly few and far between on Family Search, so how about Ann Frew b. 22nd Jan 1782, in St Marylebone Road, London, parents Mattw Frew and Elizth?
I know its a bit remiss to quote my own post, but only just looked at the 1851, where Ann is staying in Rhyl with Henry and Jane, and she gives her birthplace as London, Middlesex - although her quoted age has reduced somewhat, the birth above looks likely.
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ann would not have been able to inherit under the age of 21 or was it 25 it was definatley not 18 however the inheritance couldhave been held in a trust for her but if she was born in 1770 she would be 21 in 1791
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I'm back!
That certainly does look likely for Ann Frew. The Winnys and Francis Collingwood were all London Middlesex based too, I wonder if that's relevant - but maybe not, after all a lot of people lived there.
Toni, I'm sorry, you've lost me a bit - what inheritance do you mean?
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I've just noticed something, relevant or co-incidence?
Thomas Alsop Winny (whose daughters were beneficiaries of Ann Collingwood, whose putative sister Margaret m Francis Collingwood) left his estate to be shared between his 2 daughters. Executors were Thomas Wilson of Oxford St (saddler) and Thomas Shaw of Red Lion St, Holborn (furnishing ironmonger).
Familysearch has the baptism of Francis Collingwood on 10 Nov 1783, of Red Lion Court, Middlesex, parents John and Elizabet.
Coincidence?
Edited to add - maybe just co-incidence; there are several other children listed for this couple but no Ann or Henry
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inheritance from her parents not from her husband
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When Henry Collingwood & Francis Collingwood
Did what property did they have to leave to others?
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Am I right in thinking that if Anns parents were ‘the right honorable’ or lord / lady something that Ann would be a lady herself?
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If Henry and Francis had no property to leave would you assume that their parents were still alive when they died ? this could dramatically reduce the period that you are looking for a will for their parents.
Are there any obit’s for them ?
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The problem with looking for the name Collingwood ( we have no christian name for sure) is that you get loads of hits for Admiral Collingwood
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There's this burial, no other details on the register.
Thos Collingwood Esquire
Burial Date: 24 Jul 1799
Parish: St Marylebone
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
Record Type: Burial
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As Lord Collingwood died without male issue, his barony became extinct at his death. (this si Admirial Cuthbert Collingwood)
here is a list of Collingwood wills that i think we need to whittle down to who Ann could have inherited the land from :
Will of Francis Collingwood, Lieutenant of His Majesty's Ship Raisonable, Captain in the Royal Navy 28 November 1799 PROB 11/1332
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Officer in the Customs of Poole 27 August 1799 PROB 11/1328
Will of Thomas Collingwood of Grays Inn , Middlesex 06 August 1799 PROB 11/1328
Will of George Collingwood of Morpeth , Northumberland 06 December 1796 PROB 11/1282
Will of William Collingwood of Poole , Dorset 13 June 1796 PROB 11/1276
Will of Gilfrid Collingwood, Lieutenant in General Warburtons Regiment of Foot 26 March 1794 PROB 11/1242
Will of John Collingwood, Gentleman of Chirton, Northumberland 16 March 1793 PROB 11/1229
Will of William Collingwood, Bricklayer of Greenwich , Kent 26 September 1792 PROB 11/1222
Will of Jane Collingwood, Widow of Greenwich Royal Hospital , Kent 10 March 1791 PROB 11/1202
Will of John Collingwood of Sheerness , Kent 19 August 1786 PROB 11/1145
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Watch Spring Maker of Saint Leonard Shoreditch , Middlesex 02 March 1786 PROB 11/1139
Will of John Collingwood of Warmfield , Yorkshire 08 January 1783 PROB 11/1099
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Commander of His Majesty's Ship Tweed 05 October 1780 PROB 11/1069
Will of Edward Collingwood, Master Attendant of His Majesty's Dock Yard of Deptford , Kent 22 July 1779 PROB 11/1055
Will of Edward Collingwood of Heavitree , Devon 13 January 1810 PROB 11/1507
Will of Collingwood Roddam of Roddam , Northumberland 06 March 1807 PROB 11/1458
Will of Edward Collingwood of Chirton , Northumberland 05 June 1806 PROB 11/1444
Will of Elizabeth Collingwood, Widow of Greenwich , Kent 03 September 1805 PROB 11/1430
Will of Samuel John Collingwood of Hoxton, Middlesex 03 May 1816 PROB 11/1580
Will of Elizabeth Collingwood, Widow of Grantham , Lincolnshire 13 March 1816 PROB 11/1578
Will of Mary Collingwood, Wife of Oxford , Oxfordshire 24 April 1815 PROB 11/1567
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Victualler of Manton , Rutland 22 April 1814 PROB 11/1554
Will of Henry Collingwood, Yeoman of Grantham , Lincolnshire 07 May 1813 PROB 11/1544
Will of Samuel Collingwood, Gentleman of Greenwich , Kent 09 February 1811 PROB 11/1519
Will of Elizabeth Collingwood of Isleworth , Middlesex 10 November 1810 PROB 11/1516
Will of Edward Collingwood, Gentleman of Stepney , Middlesex 03 July 1810 PROB 11/1513
Will of The Right Honorable Cuthbert Baron Collingwood, Vice Admiral in His Majesty's Navy, Vice Admiral of the Red Squadron in His Majesty's Fleet and Commander in Chief of His Majesty's Fleet in t... 08 May 1810 PROB 11/1511
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Gentleman of Saint Mary Lambeth , Surrey 05 February 1810 PROB 11/1508
Will of Sir Archibald Collingwood Dickson, Captain of His Majesty's Ship Orion, Rear Admiral in His Majesty's Navy of Titchfield , Hampshire 12 September 1827 PROB 11/1730
Will of William Collingwood, Builder of Greenwich , Kent 15 March 1827 PROB 11/1722
Will of Sarah Collingwood, Widow of Piddinghoe , Sussex 27 November 1823 PROB 11/1677
Will of Doctor Thomas Collingwood, M.D. of Bishop Wearmouth , Durham 25 February 1823 PROB 11/1666
Will of Bartholomew Collingwood, Victualler of Poplar , Middlesex 08 November 1822 PROB 11/1663
Will of The Right Honorable Sarah Lady Collingwood, Widow of York Place , Middlesex 02 November 1819 PROB 11/1622
Will of Mary Collingwood, Spinster of Fulham, Middlesex 28 January 1817 PROB
Will of John Collingwood, Shipwright of Woolwich , Kent 12 November 1833 PROB 11/1823
Will of Anne Collingwood, Spinster of Morpeth , Northumberland 19 April 1832 PROB 11/1798
Will of John Collingwood, Architect of Gloucester , Gloucestershire 24 September 1831 PROB 11/1790
Will of Lydia Elizabeth Collingwood, Spinster of Pitfield Street Old Street Road , Middlesex 19 November 1828 PROB 11/1747
Will of Carlton Collingwood of Wanstead , Essex 03 October 1828 PROB 11/1746
Will of John Collingwood, Mason of Saint George Hanover Square , Middlesex 29 February 1828 PROB 11/1736
Will of Henry Collingwood of Lilburn Tower , Northumberland 17 October 1827 PROB 11/1731
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There's this burial, no other details on the register.
Thos Collingwood Esquire
Burial Date: 24 Jul 1799
Parish: St Marylebone
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
Record Type: Burial
i think this is his will
Will of Thomas Collingwood of Grays Inn , Middlesex 06 August 1799 PROB 11/1328
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There's a Frances Collingwood, same church 1804 but we are clutching at straws.
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i think that she must have inherited some land from someone the usual way to inherit would be through wills, as she was female her husband would have been expected to provide for her and the major parts of land would in usual cases gone to the eldest male we think Henry but Henry died and then it would have gone to the next male Francis again Francis died thus Ann inherited.
i wonder if Henry and Francis had an obit. in the paper that said dearly beloved son of ..........
i also think that the parents would have died after HEnry and Francis for the reasons above and that Ann would have had to be over the age of 21 to inherit otherwise the land would be held in trust for her.
i also think manorial records are worth looking at because this records passing land from one party to another within the manorial boundaries. manorial boundaries are different from parish boundaries.
would the Rawsons being a family of money marry someone from a family who didnt have money and alreay had a marriage behind her ?
i really think we need to see what the licence says from when she married William Rawson
some of those wills i listed above are easily ruled out.
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Admiral Collingwood was from Newcastle, so not the right branch of the family.
He had 2 daughters only one of them has decendants. She was Mary Patience Denny, so definatly no connection.
There are Collingwoods in London way back and I'm sure the answer lies there somewhere.
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This I guess is the marriage of the Thomas buried at St Marylebone.
Thomas Collingwood
Spouse Name: Ann Friend
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 30 Jul 1758
Parish: St Marylebone
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
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Will of Francis Collingwood, Lieutenant of His Majesty's Ship Raisonable, Captain in the Royal Navy 28 November 1799 PROB 11/1332
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Officer in the Customs of Poole 27 August 1799 PROB 11/1328
Will of Thomas Collingwood of Grays Inn , Middlesex 06 August 1799 PROB 11/1328
Will of George Collingwood of Morpeth , Northumberland 06 December 1796 PROB 11/1282
Will of William Collingwood of Poole , Dorset 13 June 1796 PROB 11/1276
Will of Gilfrid Collingwood, Lieutenant in General Warburtons Regiment of Foot 26 March 1794 PROB 11/1242
Will of John Collingwood, Gentleman of Chirton, Northumberland 16 March 1793 PROB 11/1229
Will of William Collingwood, Bricklayer of Greenwich , Kent 26 September 1792 PROB 11/1222
Will of Jane Collingwood, Widow of Greenwich Royal Hospital , Kent 10 March 1791 PROB 11/1202
Will of John Collingwood of Sheerness , Kent 19 August 1786 PROB 11/1145
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Watch Spring Maker of Saint Leonard Shoreditch , Middlesex 02 March 1786 PROB 11/1139
Will of John Collingwood of Warmfield , Yorkshire 08 January 1783 PROB 11/1099
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Commander of His Majesty's Ship Tweed 05 October 1780 PROB 11/1069
Will of Edward Collingwood, Master Attendant of His Majesty's Dock Yard of Deptford , Kent 22 July 1779 PROB 11/1055
Will of Edward Collingwood of Heavitree , Devon 13 January 1810 PROB 11/1507
Will of Collingwood Roddam of Roddam , Northumberland 06 March 1807 PROB 11/1458
Will of Edward Collingwood of Chirton , Northumberland 05 June 1806 PROB 11/1444
Will of Elizabeth Collingwood, Widow of Greenwich , Kent 03 September 1805 PROB 11/1430
Will of Samuel John Collingwood of Hoxton, Middlesex 03 May 1816 PROB 11/1580
Will of Elizabeth Collingwood, Widow of Grantham , Lincolnshire 13 March 1816 PROB 11/1578
Will of Mary Collingwood, Wife of Oxford , Oxfordshire 24 April 1815 PROB 11/1567
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Victualler of Manton , Rutland 22 April 1814 PROB 11/1554
Will of Henry Collingwood, Yeoman of Grantham , Lincolnshire 07 May 1813 PROB 11/1544
Will of Samuel Collingwood, Gentleman of Greenwich , Kent 09 February 1811 PROB 11/1519
Will of Elizabeth Collingwood of Isleworth , Middlesex 10 November 1810 PROB 11/1516
Will of Edward Collingwood, Gentleman of Stepney , Middlesex 03 July 1810 PROB 11/1513
Will of The Right Honorable Cuthbert Baron Collingwood, Vice Admiral in His Majesty's Navy, Vice Admiral of the Red Squadron in His Majesty's Fleet and Commander in Chief of His Majesty's Fleet in t... 08 May 1810 PROB 11/1511
Will of Thomas Collingwood, Gentleman of Saint Mary Lambeth , Surrey 05 February 1810 PROB 11/1508
Will of Sir Archibald Collingwood Dickson, Captain of His Majesty's Ship Orion, Rear Admiral in His Majesty's Navy of Titchfield , Hampshire 12 September 1827 PROB 11/1730
Will of William Collingwood, Builder of Greenwich , Kent 15 March 1827 PROB 11/1722
Will of Sarah Collingwood, Widow of Piddinghoe , Sussex 27 November 1823 PROB 11/1677
Will of Doctor Thomas Collingwood, M.D. of Bishop Wearmouth , Durham 25 February 1823 PROB 11/1666
Will of Bartholomew Collingwood, Victualler of Poplar , Middlesex 08 November 1822 PROB 11/1663
Will of The Right Honorable Sarah Lady Collingwood, Widow of York Place , Middlesex 02 November 1819 PROB 11/1622
Will of Mary Collingwood, Spinster of Fulham, Middlesex 28 January 1817 PROB
Will of John Collingwood, Shipwright of Woolwich , Kent 12 November 1833 PROB 11/1823
Will of Anne Collingwood, Spinster of Morpeth , Northumberland 19 April 1832 PROB 11/1798
Will of John Collingwood, Architect of Gloucester , Gloucestershire 24 September 1831 PROB 11/1790
Will of Lydia Elizabeth Collingwood, Spinster of Pitfield Street Old Street Road , Middlesex 19 November 1828 PROB 11/1747
Will of Carlton Collingwood of Wanstead , Essex 03 October 1828 PROB 11/1746
Will of John Collingwood, Mason of Saint George Hanover Square , Middlesex 29 February 1828 PROB 11/1736
Will of Henry Collingwood of Lilburn Tower , Northumberland 17 October 1827 PROB 11/1731
in his 73rd year, collingwood roddam esq. brother to Admiral R of Roddam , co. Northumberland , of which antinet worth family the admiral only now remains
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i think this mentions Thomas the watch spring maker but i cant view what it actually says about him
http://www.ahsoc.demon.co.uk/indexvol27.pdf
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I have found a mention in Google Books of a Thomas Collingwood Attorney at Law in 1786.
That would tie in with the 1799 death with the address being Greys Inn
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A thread here about Thomas Collingwood.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,435506.msg2996439.html
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i think this mentions Thomas the watch spring maker but i cant view what it actually says about him
http://www.ahsoc.demon.co.uk/indexvol27.pdf
It is just a very long index.
Collingwood, Samuel John, London, spring maker 65, 73
Collingwood, Thomas, London, spring maker 65, 73
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A thread here about Thomas Collingwood.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,435506.msg2996439.html
yes Grays Inn was nototrious for the legal professions
so that would make sense he was a lawyer and we can rule him out then with a son Felix .
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Thomas Collingwood
Burial Date: 9 Mar 1786
Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Record Type: Burial
He was 75 when he died, a bit old I think.
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Samuel John Collingwood in 1816 was I guess the son of Shoreditch Thomas.
Toni Have you noticed one has a Rutland address?
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This looks like the Rutland Thomas.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/o/x/Joshua-T-Cox-Pa/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0605.html
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Samuel John Collingwood in 1816 was I guess the son of Shoreditch Thomas.
Toni Have you noticed one has a Rutland address?
yes i saw that but wondered about his profession
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Toni I can only see these children of the Rutland Thomas.
. CHARLES COLLINGWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 02 FEB 1783 Manton, Rutland, England
3. ROBERT COLLINGWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 OCT 1786 Manton, Rutland, England
4. RICHARD COLLINGWOOD - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 27 DEC 1784 Manton, Rutland, England
Charles we know went to the USA
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Dr Thomas died 1823 was from the Northumberland family, I found him online.
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Referencing Annies post #122: from Lloyds Evening Post July 1-July 3 1776
"Sunday morning early,the house of Mr Collingwood,bookbinder,in Red Lion Court,Fleet Street,was broke open,and robbed of bank notes,plate and wearing apparel to a considerable amount."
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Oh boy, you have been busy, thankyou! And I have a migraine atm so can't quite take all this in - I will come back later when I will (with luck) be feeling more human.
I may have the chance to go to Leic RO tomorrow and if I do, I'll have a look at the marraige details - I have previously written down the witnesses for Wm and Ann's marraige, but can I find it? haha! I agree that it's unlikely that the men from one of the more prominent families in the town - a family that were major employers with marital and friendship links to most of other "big name" families of the area at that time - that they would marry a "nobody" but tbh I haven't been able to find out much about the family backgrounds of any of the Rawson wives in the 18th century :(.
Anyway, if I do get to the RO, I will look for wills as well. I know nothing at all about Ann's first husband, Richard Clough. Perhaps she inherited from him? (Though Clough is not a surname I've come across elswhere in my fairly extensive searches through lists of the "great and good" in leicester at that time!)
(Leic RO is nearly a 3hr round trip from here which is why I can't be sure of getting there)
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Morning; if anyone reads this and is able to add to it over the w/e, I don't want you to think I've lost interest or am ungrateful, but I shall be away until Sun night and not likely to go online until then.
Anyway- another RC has kindly got in touch re the will of Thomas Collingwood d 1799, gray's inn, and confirmed that no children of the appropriate names were mentioned in the will, so it seems we can confidently rule out that line.
Hoping to get more info at Leicester today, I shall report back!
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Another update, post Leic RO.
Marraiges:
28.10.1793 @ St Martin, Leicester- Richard Clough, OTP, and Anne Collingwood of St Nicholas in Leicester, by banns; witnesses Thomas Baines and Elizabeth Laxton
17.7.1798 @ St Margaret, Leicester - Wm Rawson, batchelor OTP and Ann Clough, widow, of the parish of St Martin, by licence; witnesses James Clough, Richard Rawson, ? Hasting and Catherine Mann.
I could NOT find the licence details on the relevant microfilm but the index told me that the licence was countersigned by Richard Rawson (William's brother),
I looked in the Leicester poll books for 1768, 1796 and 1800 - there were no Clough, Cluffs or Collingwoods.
Trade directories - Bailey's British Directory of 1784 - no poss matches in there (but clearly incomplete as no Rawsons at all either!)
Universal British Directory of 1794 - here I found a Richard CLUFF, hosier, of High St. Given that Ann's second husband was also a hosier, this looks entirely possible.
There were no wills for Cough, Cluff or Collingwood that might have matched.
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thats a shame you didnt find anything positive
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Have you tried the manorial records which should record the passing of land from one party to another?
You will need to first work out what manor the land came under that is manor not parish the boundaries are different
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Toni Looking at it from that angle lets see what we can find out about the villages the land was in.
Starting with Great Peatling.
http://www.leicestershirechurches.co.uk/#/peatling-magna-church-leiceste/4534060796
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Desford, a bit more information here, and it has a local history society.
http://www.leicestershirevillages.com/desford/history1.html
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Peckleton, I can't find much but there is this forum.
http://www.leicestershirevillages.com/peckleton/history-forum.html
You may be able to ask about the manor on there.
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Toni Looking at it from that angle lets see what we can find out about the villages the land was in.
Starting with Great Peatling.
http://www.leicestershirechurches.co.uk/#/peatling-magna-church-leiceste/4534060796
looking at that it looks like it passed on to the collingwoods in 1729 maybe when the church merged
???
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Disafforested lands on the edge of the forest were known as purlieus; agriculture was permitted here and deer escaping from the forest into them was permitted to be killed if causing damage.
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The kings rapidly discovered that abridging their rights in the Royal forests could provide a useful source of income. Local nobles could be granted a royal licence to take a certain amount of game. The common inhabitants of the forest might, depending on their location, possess a variety of rights: estover, the right of taking firewood, pannage, the right to pasture swine in the forest, turbary, the right to cut turf (as fuel), and various other rights of pasturage (agistment) and harvesting the products of the forest. Land might be disafforested entirely, or permission given for assart and purpresture.
~~
Magna Carta, the charter forced upon King John of England by the English barons in 1215, contained five clauses relating to royal forests. They aimed to limit, and even reduce, the King's sole rights as enshrined in forest law. The clauses were as follows (taken from the text of Magna Carta):
(47) All forests that have been created in our reign shall at once be disafforested. River-banks that have been enclosed in our reign shall be treated similarly.
After the death of John, Henry III was compelled to grant the Charter of the Forest (1217), which further reformed the forest law and established the rights of agistment and pannage on private land within the forests. It also checked certain of the extortions of the foresters. An "Ordinance of the Forest" under Edward I again checked the oppression of the officers, and introduced sworn juries in the forest courts
~~
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By the Tudor period and after, forest law had largely become anachronistic, and served primarily to protect timber in the royal forests. James I caused enquiries to be made into assart lands of various forests. The commissioners appointed raised over £25000 by compounding with occupiers, whose ownership was confirmed, subject to a fixed rent. Under Charles I, several forests were disforested, the king receiving a portion of the waste land of the forest, which he then sold. The last serious exercise of forest law by a court of justice-seat (Forest Eyre) seems to have been in about 1635, in an attempt to raise money. The disafforestations caused riots in a number of West Country forests, including Gillingham, Braydon and Dean, as well as Feckenham. The events were known as the Western Rising.
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from that wicked encyclopedia ;)
Royal forests in EnglandThis list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.Alice Holt Forest and Woolmer Forest, Hampshire
Allerdale Forest, Cumberland
Amounderness, Lancashire (including Bleasdale, Fulwood and Myerscough)
Ashdown Forest, East Sussex
Forest of Bere including Bere Ashley and Bere Porchester, Hampshire
Bernwood Forest, Buckinghamshire (including Brill and Panshill) and Oxfordshire
Blackmore Forest, Dorset
Bolsover Forest, Derbyshire
Forest of Braden, Wiltshire (including parish of Minety, Gloucestershire)
Burrington Forest
Cannock, Staffordshire
Charnwood Forest
Chute Forest, Hampshire and Wiltshire, included Finkley and Digerley Forests
Clarendon Forest, Wiltshire (including Panchet and Milchet Park), with the associated Forest of Buckholt, Hampshire
Forest of Dartmoor, Devon
Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire and Herefordshire
Duffield Frith A group of six royal forests in mid Derbyshire
Forest of East Derbyshire [5]
Epping Forest part of Waltham Forest
Exmoor Forest, Somerset
Farndale Forest, Yorkshire
Feckenham Forest, Warwickshire and Worcestershire
Freemantle Forest, Hampshire
Forest of Galtres, Yorkshire, disafforested 1629
Gillingham Forest, Dorset
Groveley Forest, Wiltshire
Guildford Park, Surrey
Hatfield Forest
Hay of Hereford
Forest of High Peak, North Derbyshire
Forest of Huntingdonshire (including Forests of Weybridge, Sapley and Herthey)
Inglewood Forest, Cumberland
Irchenfield Forest, Herefordshire (disafforested 1251)
Kesteven Forest in The Fens of south Lincolnshire. This is not the modern forestry management district of the same name.
Keynsham Forest, Somerset
Kingswood, Gloucestershire
Kinver Forest, Staffordshire formerly extending into Worcestershire
Knaresborough Forest, Yorkshire
Langwith Hay, Yorkshire
Long Forest, Shropshire
Long Mynd or Strattondale, Shropshire
Lonsdale (including Wyresdale and Quernsmore), Lancashire
Macclesfield Forest, Cheshire
Malvern Forest, Worcestershire was strictly only a chase.
Mara et Mondrum, Cheshire (Delamere Forest is a remnant)
Melksham and Chippenham Forest, Wiltshire
Mendip Forest, also known as Cheddar, Somerset
Forest of Middlesex, London & South East (Middlesex)
Morfe Forest, Shropshire, lying east and southeast of Bridgnorth
Needwood Forest in east Staffordshire was parcel of the Duchy of Lancaster
Neroche Forest, Somerset
New Forest, Hampshire
North Petherton, Somerset
Forest of Northumberland (disafforested 1280)
Pamber Forest, Hampshire
Forest of Pendle, Lancashire
Pickering Forest, North Yorkshire
Poorstock Forest, Dorset (see Powerstock)
Purbeck, Dorset
Rockingham Forest, (including Brigstock, Cliffe, Geddington and Northampton Park) Northamptonshire
Forest of Rossendale, Lancashire
Forest of Rutland, with Sauvey Forest, Leicestershire
Salcey Forest, Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire
Savernake Forest, Berkshire and Wiltshire
Selwood Forest, Somerset and Wiltshire
Sherwood Forest, Nottinghamshire
Shirlett Forest, Shropshire, whose final extent was a small area northwest of Bridgnorth
Shotover Forest (including Stowood), Oxfordshire
Somerton Warren, Somerset
Stapelwood, Shropshire (including Buriwood, Lythewood and Stepelton)
Forest of Trawden, Lancashire
Windsor Forest, Berkshire, Hampshire and Surrey
Forest of Wirral, Cheshire (disafforested 1376)
Whittlewood Forest, Buckinghamshire, Northamptonshire and Oxfordshire
Woodstock Forest, Oxfordshire
Wrekin Forest (more strictly Mount Gilbert Forest), Shropshire (including Wellington and Wombridge), and the associated Forest of Haughmond
Wychwood Forest, Oxfordshire
Wyre Forest, Worcestershire and Shropshire was strictly only a chase
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Great Wigston, somewhere to start.
http://www.wigstonhistoricalsociety.co.uk/
We are then left with Matlock, the only place outside Leicestershire. ( Unless the disafforested forest is)
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, Matlock and the Disafforested Forest
is this Needwood Forest ?
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Doh What's the M1 Service Station called?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_Muxloe
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http://www.archive.org/stream/worksonforestry05browrich/worksonforestry05browrich_djvu.txt
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At the time of the Norman occupation, Belper was part of the land centred on Duffield held by the family of Henry de Ferrers. The Domesday Survey records a manor of "Bradley" which is thought to have been somewhere in the vicinity of the Coppice. At that time it was probably within the Forest of East Derbyshire which covered the whole of the county east of the Derwent. It was possibly appropriated by William de Ferrers, 4th Earl of Derby at some time after it was disafforested in 1225 and became part of Duffield Frith.
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Matlock Forest. ( from the Peak Districk website re bird watching)
Northeast Derbyshire Moors and Matlock Forest.
This area is largely a treeless expanse of moorland and bog to the west of Chesterfield, accessible from the north via the A619 or the B5057 from the south. Beeley Moor (SK 29 68) East Moor (SK 29 70), Harewood Moor (SK 30 67) and Gibbet Moor (SK 28 70) make up this superb area for moorland birds. Between the months of April and July Golden Plover, Curlew, Lapwing, Snipe and Ring Ouzel are breeding.
The area adjacent to the Arkwright Plantation (SK 30 68) seems to be a good spot for birds of prey whilst the area adjacent to Beeley triangle (SK 29 67) and surrounding fields are particularly good for Curlew. There is no access to the moorland as it is designated as a Wildlife Sanctuary but there are ‘lay-byes’ on some of the roads that where the expanse can be easily viewed.
Nearby, to the south of Beeley Moor, is Matlock Forest (SK 300 647), good for woodland birds throughout the year. Much of this area is privately owned land but access is available to some parts. Flash Lane seems to be the centre of attraction.
In June and July Nightjar can be heard ‘churring’ between the time of 22.00 and 23.00. There are also owls and ‘roding’ Woodcock present in this area. This is probably the only site in Derbyshire where Nightjar are present so please act responsibly to avoid disturbance. Park sensibly, adhere to any signs and keep to the roads and footpaths.
I was racking my brain to think where there was a forest at Matlock, but I realise now, up on the moorland above the town.
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not sure if this helps
http://wn.com/Forest_of_East_Derbyshire
i'm having trouble viewing it
the disafforested forest of Matlock came from the Rawsons
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Toni That is Measham.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measham
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Derby, West (St. Mary)
DERBY, WEST (St. Mary), a district parish, and the head of a union, in the parish of Walton-on-the-Hill, hundred of West Derby, S. division of the county of Lancaster, 4 miles (N. E.) from Liverpool; containing 16,864 inhabitants. The "Wood of Derby" is described in the Perambulation of the Forests, 12th Henry III., when it was exempted from being disafforested. In the 50th of the same reign, the honour of Derby, with the manor and lands of West Derby, and other places, that belonged to Robert de Ferrers, one of the rebellious barons, was bestowed upon Edmund, Earl of Lancaster: and in 1320, Thomas, Earl of Lancaster, gave the manor of "Westderby juxta Leverpole" to Robert de Holland. On Henry de Bolingbroke, Duke of Lancaster, becoming king, this, with other manors, went to the crown, with which it remained until the time of Charles I. The manor afterwards passed to various families, among whom were the Stanleys, Legays, and more recently the Greens. The heiress of the last was married to Bamber Gascoyne, Esq., of Childwall; and his daughter, by marriage with the Marquess of Salisbury, conveyed the estate to that noble family. In the Saxon era West Derby was probably the capital of the hundred; and a mound of earth, removed some years ago by Mr. Gascoyne, indicated by its name, Castle Hill, the site of the ancient castle.
The parish is seven miles long and five broad, and includes two of the principal suburbs of Liverpool, with portions of the parliamentary borough; it stands on rising ground, commanding beautiful views of the surrounding country. The Zoological gardens of Liverpool are here; they occupy a pleasant site, encompassed by elevated land, and the natural features of the spot have been judiciously improved by art. The only house of early date is that, not appropriately, called New Hall, the residence for many generations of a branch of the Molyneux family; but the district abounds in elegant modern mansions and villas. Yew-Tree House, with 60 acres, is the property and seat of Lawrence Heyworth, Esq., who also owns Rice House, with 40 acres, occupied by Joshua Heap, Esq. Deysbrook, the seat of R. B. B. H. Blundell, Esq., was rebuilt in 1847, from the designs of Mr. Smirke. The Elms is the seat of Mrs. Mary Thornton and daughters; Staplands, that of the Misses Molyneux; and Ashfield House, that of Mrs. John Clarke. Croxteth Hall is noticed under its own head. Tue-Brook Villa, situated three miles from Liverpool, a private asylum for insane persons in the higher ranks of society, under the management of Mr. and Mrs. Owen, is a handsome building in the Italian style, and admirably adapted for the comfort and classification of the inmates. The court-house for the barony and manor is a dark stone edifice, in which are frequently held courts leet for portions of the hundred.
The living is a rectory, in the patronage of John Stewart, Esq., of Liverpool; income, £1300. The parish church is a plain structure, in the centre of the village. St. James' church was built at a cost of £8000, in 1847, and is in the early English style, with a tower, and a very beautiful interior; it was erected at the sole expense of Mrs. Thornton, of The Elms, in whom the patronage is vested: the living is a perpetual curacy, with an income of £150. St. Jude's church, in Hardwick-street, built in 1841, on ground given by the Marquess of Salisbury, is in the style of the 13th century, and is of brick, with stone pinnacles and ornaments; the cost of its erection was £9000: the living is a perpetual curacy, in the patronage of five Trustees. Two full services are performed every Sunday, and a lecture is delivered every Wednesday, at the Union-Workhouse chapel, in Mill-road, Everton. There are also churches at Stanley (or Old Swan), Knotty-Ash, and Edge-Hill, which places are separately described. A Roman Catholic chapel, called Gillmoss chapel, is situated in West Derby, about a mile from Croxteth Hall; it was built in 1823, at a cost of £2500, on a site given by the late Earl of Sefton, and is a plain but neat edifice of brick, in the Grecian style, 75 feet in length and 40 in breadth, accommodating between 400 and 500 persons. Among the schools is one endowed with lands and money in the funds, producing together £34 per annum; and attached to the Roman Catholic chapel is a spacious school for boys and girls, completed in 1840, on a piece of ground the gift of the present Earl of Sefton. The poor law union of West Derby comprises 23 parishes or places, and contains a population of 66,032.—See Liverpool.
From: 'Denver - Devizes', A Topographical Dictionary of England (1848), pp. 32-46. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=50918&strquery=disafforested matlock Date accessed: 23 May 2011.
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Off on another tangent.
Henry jnr. living at Ulley, a bit out of their usual stamping ground.
I found this.
http://www.ulleyweb.co.uk/history/1833.htm
So was he renting the hall?
Were either the Collingwoods or the Wards related to the Pressley family?
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he must have been renting it
added
in which case there will be records
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William Pres(s)ley was from Norton Cuckney Nottinghamshire.
I know there are textile connections with Cuckney early 19th century, I have researched them for someone else some time ago.
Also the twin villages are on the edge of the Welbeck Abbey estate owned by the Dukes of Portland.
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There could possibly be a Ward connection with Ulley, although it is a common surname.
http://www.ulleyweb.co.uk/history/1841.htm
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YOU MEAN a connection betwixt the Collingwoods and the Wards ?
is this your website?
http://www.ulleyweb.co.uk/genea/salkeld.htm
HenrySJCollingwood was at Matlock in 1848 too http://andrewspages.dial.pipex.com/matlock/dir/kelly1848.htm
his probate was 1870 in cornwall i suppose you have that
http://johnson-wilcock.com/opc/wills/PROBATE.1870-1879.FORMATTED.htm
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No Toni. I was thinking how come Henry was at Ulley, maybe there were Wards there and they put a word in for him to rent Ulley Hall.
He gave his address as Ulley on his marriage and we know Jane was from Matlock so how and where did they get together?
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he was riding on his horse and he passed her at the wayside with her basket of flowers it was raining and she was wet so he gave her a lift home ;D
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Another thought. Although we know Jane came from Matlock ( well she says Lea on a census, but just up the hill from Cromford)
On her marriage to Henry it says her parents were 'of Belper'
Now that was another hotbed of the Industrial Revolution in the Derwent valley, downstream from Matlock/Cromford.
http://www.belper-research.com/places/belper/mills.html
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I missed this bit from that Belper link I put up.
The Ward family of Belper, later of the hosiery firm of Ward, Brettle and Ward, also provided much employment for Belper inhabitants, by renting out knitting machines and supplying yarn to workers who laboured in specially constructed terraced houses with a second or third storey giving maximum light for the work.
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This I think is Jane Ward/Collingwood's baptism.
Jane Ward baptised 1805 DETHWICK, DERBYSHIRE
daughter of Richard & Cathrine Ward
Her eldest daughter was named Catherine.
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These details have probably already featured but just in case here they are, from the Sheffield Independent Saturday 1st Aug 1829:
"On the 21st ult at Matlock Henry S.J.Collingwood Esq of Ulley Hall,Yorkshire to Jane daughter of the Rev R.Ward of Matlock Bath"
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And the Rev Richard Ward conducted the funeral service for Richard Arkwright jnr Esq at Cromford, April 1832 (The Derby Mercury)
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Another Ward link to the hosiery trade.
http://www.knittingtogether.org.uk/doc.asp?doc=14070&cat=667
That trade has to be the link bringing Henry jnr. and Jane Ward together.
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Oh wow, you have been so busy on my behalf!
I'm sorry, I work long days so can't dip in here easily, please don't think I don't appreciate your efforts .
Picking up a few comments on the last 2 pages:
1. The Disafforested Forest first appeared in William's will as a codicil: "I have purchased --- a Close or Ground -- containing six acres or thereabouts in the late Disafforested Forest or Chase of Leicester called Lady Meadow". I don't know where this was but I don't think it will give any clues to the Collingwoods.
2.post no 152 - where are manorial records likely to be found?
3. There are various websites with the Ward family tree on but I have to admit I haven't explored Jane's background!
4. I wondered if Uley Hall had any connection with HSJ's stepfather, Samuel Stocks - as per several pages ago - SS had property or interests in the next village along, I'm sure he would have known the other local bigwigs!
5. I believe the church at Cromford was built by/for Richard Arkwright.I don't know if it was then in general use for the local population, I imagine it was.
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You know where all this came from? I visited Arkwright's mill not long ago and on one of the info boards, read that a small bridge across the river as it runs through the mill yard was once the main road. And I thought - I wonder if my Rawsons visited the local textile industry competition and stood where I'm standing? And I started to look for links with the area - and came up with Ann Collingwood and HSJ!
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You know where all this came from? I visited Arkwright's mill not long ago and on one of the info boards, read that a small bridge across the river as it runs through the mill yard was once the main road. And I thought - I wonder if my Rawsons visited the local textile industry competition and stood where I'm standing? And I started to look for links with the area - and came up with Ann Collingwood and HSJ!
Annie I've been there a few times, I once got a personal one to one tour of the mill. The people there are real enthusiasts about the mill.
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I've been reading this Scavenger Hunt with interest and I am hopefully going to make a trip to the records office in Matlock towards the end of next week if you have any quick look ups on the Derbyshire lines that you want looking at.
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• land tax records 1780- 1832 The land tax was a national tax levied on landowners from the 1690s. Only one complete set of returns for 1798 survives for England and Wales (in the National Archives), but many returns are available in local record offices. The returns (or 'duplicates' as they are often known) were made for each township and record the names of owners and occupiers and the sum to which they were assessed.
(book, 1873 Return of Owners of Land)
Land Tax Records should be held at the County Record Office however they are not all there and are not always are complete. TNA can help to locate documents relating tot a particular manor so it would help if the Manor is known, - Manorial Document Register (MDR) a card index in the man search room at TNA is listed by name of manor and includes information about what documents have survived and where they can be found (not at TNA) some of the index cards have been put online, (Yorkshire, Wales, Middlesex, Surrey, Norfolk, Cumberland, Westmorland, Isle of Wight Hampshire and Furness (now Cumbria)) www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mdr/ also try www.a2a.org.uk
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• Manorial Records, after 1066 the land of England was divided into Manors granted to faithful servants of the King. These did not always correspond with the boundaries of villages, towns, parishes etc. and often had their own name.
Manorial Court Rolls these refer to two types of court, Baron Court & Lett Court the latter tends to deal with law and order, on the other hand Court Baron is concerned with recording those who held land from the manor.
(Manorial) Rental, listing all the tenants in a manor their holdings and how much they paid in rent to the manor. copyhold (now called leasehold 19th c) if you lived in or owned a house that technically came under the Manor upon death or any over reason for the property being passed to another party even down the family line you would have to apply to the lord of the manor to do so and his consent would have to be given – even in wills (these should be recorded in the Manor estate documents and possibly the court rolls)
Manorial Accounts recorded the income and expenditure of the manor though these generally do not contain personal names.
Manorial Documents were written in Latin until 1733.
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It's time for this weeks Scavenger Hunt and Pebbles has very high hopes for this one.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,534374.0.html
Good Luck and Good Hunting
Barbara
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
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http://uk-genealogy.org.uk/cgi-bin/DB/search.cgi?action=loadDB&DB=1
hopefully this link will work if not then try
UK Genealogy Archives
The Return of Owners of Land in England and Wales, 1873
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http://uk-genealogy.org.uk/cgi-bin/DB/search.cgi?action=loadDB&DB=1
hopefully this link will work if not then try
UK Genealogy Archives
The Return of Owners of Land in England and Wales, 1873
doh thats about a century too late!
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try www.victoriacountyhistory.ac.uk
the board of agriculture published agriculture county reports betwixt 1793 & 1817 with indexes and references to particular parishes
these books ave been digitalised and are free to view online from http://books.google.co.uk
simply type in the book search
general view of the agriculture of .......... (insert county)
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Hello all, i cannot go into depth due to ver sad family issues including the passing of my wife Caroline. I may come back at some other time.
However,
In brief...
The History of the Collingwoods mainly can be traced back to Durham and the shipping industry. Many became wealthy as shipwrights, master mariners ship owners for trading the Guine a coast as slavers. Their were a whole host of them as property and land owners,or agriculture farming.
Well i have began researching the High Sheriffs of Northumberand, there were 16 in total from the Collingwood line ie 1761: Alexander Collingwood of Unthank Hall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Sheriff_of_Northumberland
Well worth researching along these lines. After the Civil War, depending on their loyalty, many left Durham and spread to London and abroad keeping to their trusted trades, usually in high positions. Many feared prosecution from Cromwell and fled.
Also worth researching is The Od Bailley online archives.
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=OA17550317n23-2&div=OA17550317#highlight
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t17331205-12-person106&div=t17331205-12#highlight
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/search.jsp?foo=bar&form=searchHomePage&_persNames_surname=collingwood&kwparse=and&start=40
For now i hope this helps...good luck, Daniel