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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: eddiebooth on Saturday 16 January 16 09:28 GMT (UK)
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Hi.
Im looking for birth or adoption info on my grandfather.
Edward Booth, dob 03/02/1900
He was born in Staffordshire to either D'Arcy or De Lacey family, later adopted by Booth family who then moved to Belfast.
Would appreciate any help or guidance here.
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Have you found him in 1901 and 1911 census records yet? if so, can you tell us where he was and under which name.
Have you searched for a birth registration in England? try this site if you haven't done so already-
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Official adoption didn't come into effect in England until well into the 1900s. Earlier 'adoption' was often just an informal arrangement where relatives or friends took in a child.
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There's only 1 male D'Arcy born Staffs. around this time:
Harold D'Arcy registered March 1901 Leek.
It's a year out but that's not unusual.
I can't see him under either name in Belfast 1911.
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It might help if we knew the names of the Booth couple who 'adopted' him.
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The Harold D'Arcy born in the Leek district in 1900 is with his parents in 1901 and 1911 and appears to have lived there all his life so doesn't seem to be the one you want.
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Hi.
The earliest address I have for him is on his 1919 marriage certificate to Mary McShane (its actually a 1938 copy, not the original) which shows 48 Kent Street, Belfast.
On 1910, 1918, and 1924 street directories the only occupant shown is Annie Gribbon/Rose Anne Gribben.
I mention this because I found an online marriage record of Edward Gribben Booth to Mary Catherine McShane in 1919.
I cannot find an Edward Booth on 1901 or 1911 census for Belfast
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I have no info at all on the Booths who adopted him, and understand that until 1927 there were no formal adoptions as we know them today.
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In 1911 there's a Teddy Gribben aged 10 in Kent St. with Rose Ann aged 40.It states he was born Belfast as was she.
They are living with relatives & Teddy is just described as such.
So is Teddy Gribben & Edward Gribben Booth one in the same.
Why do you believe his name may have been D'Arcy or De Lacey?
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In 1911 there's a Teddy Gribben aged 10 in Kent St. with Rose Ann aged 40.It states he was born Belfast as was she.
They are living with relatives & Teddy is just described as such.
So is Teddy Gribben & Edward Gribben Booth one in the same.
Why do you believe his name may have been D'Arcy or De Lacey?
Hi, can you tell me where you're searching? I've looked at the National Archives.i.e. website and cant find them there.
The D'Arcy and De Lacey names were told to me by my mother. Initially she said D'Arcy originated in France, moved to Staffs (she had no idea when), and when his parents passed away he was adopted by Booths who then moved to Belfast.
The De Lacey name came late in her life and could be a mistake as her memory was beginning to go.
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In 1911 there's a Teddy Gribben aged 10 in Kent St. with Rose Ann aged 40.
It states he was born Belfast as was she.
They are living with relatives & Teddy is just described as such.
So is Teddy Gribben & Edward Gribben Booth one in the same.
Hi, can you tell me where you're searching? I've looked at the National Archives.i.e. website and cant find them there.
Transcribed a LEDDEY Gribben
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/Kent_Street/133663/
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In 1911 there's a Teddy Gribben aged 10 in Kent St. with Rose Ann aged 40.
It states he was born Belfast as was she.
They are living with relatives & Teddy is just described as such.
So is Teddy Gribben & Edward Gribben Booth one in the same.
Hi, can you tell me where you're searching? I've looked at the National Archives.i.e. website and cant find them there.
Transcribed a LEDDEY Gribben
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/Kent_Street/133663/
Got it!
Teddy could be him, my Grandmother referred to him as Ted but I thought that was to avoid confusion with "wee Eddie" (me) and "big Eddie"( my dad)
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I searched using the address.
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The earliest address I have for him is on his 1919 marriage certificate to Mary McShane
(its actually a 1938 copy, not the original) which shows 48 Kent Street, Belfast.
I mention this because I found an online marriage record of
Edward Gribben Booth to Mary Margaret McShane in 1919.
Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
According to the 1919 marriage index Mary McShane's middle name is Catherine not Margaret
Mary Catherine McShane
Jul-Aug-Sep, 1919Belfast, Ireland Vol 1 Page 661
Edward Gribben Booth
Jul-Aug-Sep, 1919 Belfast, Ireland Vol 1 Page 661
The 1919 m/c (1938 copy) you have who witnessed their marriage?
Were they related to either couple?
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Possibly of interest - in the same area of Belfast (St Anne's) as where the Gribben/McKenna etc. lot are living in 1911, in 1901 there is an English-born woman, Lizzie Booth, aged 30, unmarried, with a son Edward Morris Booth, aged 1, born Belfast.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__Anne_s/Talbot_Street/933944/
Talbot Street is very close to Kent Street.
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/
searching here gives me Edward Booth, 04 February 1900, mother's maiden name Booth
(I know you have 3 Feb but it might be a registration date vs. birth date issue)
You may be able to locate/access a copy of this record through GRONI, but you will need an account/credits to do so:
http://blog.irishgenealogical.org/?p=1978
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The earliest address I have for him is on his 1919 marriage certificate to Mary McShane
(its actually a 1938 copy, not the original) which shows 48 Kent Street, Belfast.
I mention this because I found an online marriage record of
Edward Gribben Booth to Mary Margaret McShane in 1919.
Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
According to the 1919 marriage index Mary McShane's middle name is Catherine not Margaret
Mary Catherine McShane
Jul-Aug-Sep, 1919Belfast, Ireland Vol 1 Page 661
Edward Gribben Booth
Jul-Aug-Sep, 1919 Belfast, Ireland Vol 1 Page 661
The 1919 m/c (1938 copy) you have who witnessed their marriage?
Were they related to either couple?
My mistake, should be Mary Catherine McShane.
Witness were
John McArdle, 44 Jennymount st (same address as Mary McShane)
Nora McShane, 5 Jennymount St
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Possibly of interest - in the same area of Belfast (St Anne's) as where the Gribben/McKenna etc. lot are living in 1911, in 1901 there is an English-born woman, Lizzie Booth, aged 30, unmarried, with a son Edward Morris Booth, aged 1, born Belfast.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__Anne_s/Talbot_Street/933944/
Talbot Street is very close to Kent Street.
I had spotted that one, but the religion is wrong unless that was his religion at birth and it changed if/when he became a Gribben
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/
searching here gives me Edward Booth, 04 February 1900, mother's maiden name Booth
(I know you have 3 Feb but it might be a registration date vs. birth date issue)
saw this and it is possible, assuming my Mothers D'Arcy/De Lacey is wrong.
Frustratingly, although I know Rose Anne Gribben was living at 48 Kent St from the 1908 and 1910 street directories, that Annie Gribbon is listed in the 1918 & 1924 directories, and that Edward Booth lived there in 1919, I cant find anything in the 1901 or 1911 census for any of these, only the entry for Rose Gribben and Leddey (?Teddy?) Gribben at no.15.
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I want to check into a few more things but am throwing these bits into the thread for now as there MIGHT be a connection-
Lizzie Booth, age 11, died 20 Dec.1905 Queen St. Hospital, buried same day City Cemetery (Public Ground)
Can't match up a Belfast birth BUT there is this in 1901 census-
Eliza Booth, age 7, visitor, born Lancashire England
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Oranmore_Street/981073
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this would be the registration of Edward from 1901
Edward Maurice Booth
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1899
Registration district: Belfast
presumably if adopted into an RC family they'd list him as such, despite his previous conenctions?
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Interesting year difference between the birth registers on Ancestry and Irish Genealogy
The latter has a death of an Eliza Jane Booth aged 31 in Q3 1901
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/59f88713241162
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this would be the registration of Edward from 1901
Edward Maurice Booth
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1899
Registration district: Belfast
presumably if adopted into an RC family they'd list him as such, despite his previous conenctions?
No such birth in GRONI's database so I checked Family Search's civil registration index and the year should be 1900 NOT 1899-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBVQ-Z2P
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The latter has a death of an Eliza Jane Booth aged 31 in Q3 1901
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/59f88713241162
Eliza Booth died 31 Aug.1901 according to GRONI.
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Belfast City Cemetery (F2 47)
Mrs. Eliza Jane Booth, age 31, Workhouse 36 Clementine St, died 31 Aug.1901, buried 2 Sept.1901
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6405.18688
3 other Booths in plot
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialSearch.aspx?GraveSection=F2&GraveNumber=47&CemeteryName=City%20Cemetery
Added- bad news? Hugh Booth born 13 Mar.1901 (mother- Walker)
Which seems to be this family-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__George_s_Ward_Belfast/Fortuna_Street/955638
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Ive been thru the Belfast City site trying to find burial records for Edward Booth (thats the name shown on the certified copy death certificate) dod 05/09/1981.
Can find nothing at all, even for just 'Booth' that fits any known family members (he had a son Patrick who died in the 1970's)
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Was there an Albert Booth in the family in more recent times?
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Was there an Albert Booth in the family in more recent times?
No, the only names on that side of the tree are Edward, John, Patrick, Mary, Susan, Helen, David, Stephen, and Anthony
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Ive been thru the Belfast City site trying to find burial records for Edward Booth (thats the name shown on the certified copy death certificate) dod 05/09/1981.
Can find nothing at all, even for just 'Booth' that fits any known family members (he had a son Patrick who died in the 1970's)
The Belfast City Cemetery site only has records from City Cemetery, Dundonald Cemetery & Roselawn Cemetery. I suspect that Milltown is more likely but not all their records are online so it might be an idea to contact them especially if more recent family burials have taken place there. However, I don't think that will take you any further back than Edward himself.
Family stories often have a grain or two of truth even if they get a bit muddled over the years. Possible scenario-
c1871 Lizzie Booth born in England (either as Booth or D'Arcy...)
c1894 Lizzie Booth has daughter Lizzie born Lancashire
1901 Lizzie Booth and son Edward in census in Belfast with daughter Lizzie as a visitor at another address
1905 daughter Lizzie Booth died Belfast death certificate might give clues- address? informant?
1911 son Edward with Annie Gribben in Belfast has mother Lizzie Booth died, remarried or moved back to England
One reason I suspect that young Lizzie is Lizzie's daughter is that she is also born England (how many English-born Booths can be in Belfast at that time)
If Edward was born to Church of Ireland/England mother but later married a Catholic then there should probably be a baptism record for his conversion in order to marry in a Catholic Church. So, do you know exactly where the 1919 marriage took place?
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I wonder...
Baptism: 5 Aug 1894 Ellenbrook Chapel, Worsley, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Alice Booth - [Child] of Elizabeth Booth, Single Woman
Abode: Boothstown
Baptised by: Jno. H. Powell
Register: Baptisms 1844 - 1902, Page 262, Entry 2189
Source: Manchester Central Library
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
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I have to say how impressed I am with this forum and the stuff you guys come up with. I'm on other forums (not for this purpose) and can wait weeks for feedback.
I've looked at Milltown cemetery, when I was a small child we visited a grave near home and when I Googled last week, Milltown was the nearest.
I would still have expected details to be on the Belfast City Cncl website, ive looked under every family surname I could think of.
The 1919 marriage took place on 28th June, at St Josephs R C Church, Pilot Road, long gone unfortunately. None of my family have the original marriage certificate, only a 1938 copy which may not have all the details (doesn't mention any middle names, so I can't be certain about Gribben or Catherine)
The Belfast City Cemetery site only has records from City Cemetery, Dundonald Cemetery & Roselawn Cemetery. I suspect that Milltown is more likely but not all their records are online so it might be an idea to contact them especially if more recent family burials have taken place there. However, I don't think that will take you any further back than Edward himself.
Family stories often have a grain or two of truth even if they get a bit muddled over the years. Possible scenario-
c1871 Lizzie Booth born in England (either as Booth or D'Arcy...)
c1894 Lizzie Booth has daughter Lizzie born Lancashire
1901 Lizzie Booth and son Edward in census in Belfast with daughter Lizzie as a visitor at another address
1905 daughter Lizzie Booth died Belfast death certificate might give clues- address? informant?
1911 son Edward with Annie Gribben in Belfast has mother Lizzie Booth died, remarried or moved back to England
One reason I suspect that young Lizzie is Lizzie's daughter is that she is also born England (how many English-born Booths can be in Belfast at that time)
If Edward was born to Church of Ireland/England mother but later married a Catholic then there should probably be a baptism record for his conversion in order to marry in a Catholic Church. So, do you know exactly where the 1919 marriage took place?
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One reason I suspect that young Lizzie is Lizzie's daughter is that she is also born England (how many English-born Booths can be in Belfast at that time)
Agreed, in fact it always struck me that, as a child, we seemed to be the only Booths in Belfast. All my non-booth relatives had family here, there, and everywhere
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As I explained earlier, the Belfast Cemetery site only covers 3 of them so if the family aren't buried there then they won't be listed.
You could try contacting Milltown and see if they can help with Booth burials (I came across other Booths buried there).
Re: the 1938 copy of marriage- is it a church record or civil record?
off to do a bit more searching for you ;)
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Re: the 1938 copy of marriage- is it a church record or civil record?
off to do a bit more searching for you ;)
Its the church record
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Ive had an email back from the local church who would 99% have been where the service was held, and they cannot trace their records for July to December 1981.
Have now emailed some local long established funeral directors to see if they can help
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In 1911 there's a Teddy Gribben aged 10 in Kent St. with Rose Ann aged 40.
It states he was born Belfast as was she.
They are living with relatives & Teddy is just described as such.
So is Teddy Gribben & Edward Gribben Booth one in the same.
Hi, can you tell me where you're searching? I've looked at the National Archives.i.e. website and cant find them there.
Transcribed a LEDDEY Gribben
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/Kent_Street/133663/
Hi.
This is him!
Ive looked at the census paperwork. The transcription and Form A both suggest house number is 15, but when I looked at Form A's Instructions page there is a note saying "Street, &c.' with No. of House.......Kent St. No.48", the same address my grandfather got married from.
So, I think its pretty safe to assume that Teddy Gribben took the surname Booth sometime between this census (1911) and his marriage (1919)
The name Rose Ann Gribben does not reappear so far as I can see, but Annie Gribbon (sic) appears at no.48 Kent St in the 1918,1924, and 1932 street directories
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Okay, this is where my current thinking is..
My Grandfather Edward Booth is Edward Gribben Booth / Teddy Gribben dob 03/02/1900
His mother is Rose Ann/Anne Gribben born c1871
Rose Ann Gribben is listed in 1911 census as Widow. Address is 48 Kent St, Belfast.
Dont know if she was born Gribben, married Booth (who died) then reverted back to Gribben, or if she never married at all, or if she was born Booth, married Gribben (who died before Edward was born) so she kept the Gribben name, although this doesnt explain why Edward changed from Gribben to Booth as he got older.
Do any of you know what common practice was back then for widows / unmarried mothers?
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It could be Rose Ann co-habited with or married a Gribben who wasn't Edward's father but Edward was given the Gribben name which was a common practice. It also wan't unusual for children like Edward to revert to their real name at adulthood.
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It could be Rose Ann co-habited with or married a Gribben who wasn't Edward's father but Edward was given the Gribben name which was a common practice. It also wan't unusual for children like Edward to revert to their real name at adulthood.
There is an unmarried Rose Gribben of the right age living with her sister in Londonderry in 1901, but thats 70 miles from Belfast. Mind you, there are 2 or 3 male Booths of the right age living in Londonderry at that time
This genealogy isnt straightforward, is it
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Possible progress?
Edward Booth dob 03/02/1900 = Teddy Gribben, mother Rose Anne Gribben dob c1871
1911 Census describes Rose Anne Gribben as WIDOWER
Ive searched all Gribben/Gribbon/Gribbin's and have found
Thomas Gribbin died 04/09/1892 Belfast, widow Rose (Cant find marriage though)
If this is same Rose (she would have been 21 y.o.) then Edward Booth/Teddy Gribben would have been born out of wedlock (well, she was still a young woman)
Any thoughts?
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Perfectly possible.Legally he would have been a Booth but giving him the Gribben surname saves a lot of explaining.
My GGGrandmother gave birth 8 years into widowhood & gave the child her married surname rather than her maiden name so it did happen.
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Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but not sure I like your Thomas Gribbin and his wife Rose :o
Thomas Gribbin was age 52 when he died (born c1841) so 30 years older than the Rose in 1911 census.
Will Extract for Thomas here-
The Will of Thomas Gribbin late of 61 Great George's-street Belfast Painter who died 4 September 1892 at same place was proved at Belfast by Rose Gribbin of same place Widow the sole Executrix. Effects £40 18s. 10d.
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx
Off to do more searching about this couple...
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...and there's always the possibility that her maiden name was Booth and her married name Gribben (GF's birth records on familysearch show mothers birth name as Booth, although this could be a mistake)
Problem with all this is that while he adopted Booth as his surname sometime between 1911 census and 1919 marriage, she remains as Gribben on Belfast street directories up to 1932
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I wonder if we can't simplify this a bit. Edward Booth, dob 03/02/1900
Birth: Edward Maurice Booth, Jan./Mar.1900 Belfast (replies 17-19)
Edward Booth born 4 Feb.1900 (reply 13) Note: 1 day off from your original date of birth
1901 census: Edward Morris Booth (age 1 born Belfast) with mother Lizzie Booth (age 30 born England) (reply 13). Fits with birth for Edward Maurice Booth (above)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__Anne_s/Talbot_Street/933944
1901 census: Eliza Booth, age 7, visitor, born Lancashire England (reply 16)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Oranmore_Street/981073
Lizzie Booth, age 11, died 20 Dec.1905 Queen St. Hospital, buried same day City Cemetery (reply 16) See reply #41
1911 census: Teddy Gribben with Rose Ann Gribben in same household. Note: this lists Rose Anne as 'cousin' and Teddy as 'relative' but doesn't given relationship between Teddy and Rose Ann. (replies 7 & 9) Note: this address ties in with 1919 marriage for Edward (reply 5)
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/Kent_Street/133663
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Have exciting new information to post shortly ;D
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Used some credits with GRONI to try and sort out this and can now eliminate the child Lizzie Booth.
Death certificate:
20 Dec.1905 Queen Street Hospital
Lizzie Booth from 158 Matilda St.
female spinster 11 years old
daughter of Sam Booth labourer
heart disease 5 months cardiac dropsy 1 month certified
informant- Elizabeth Mitchell (her mark) who caused the body to be buried 218 Matilda St.
registered 22 Dec.1905
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Now for better news :)
Also looked up the following record-
Birth:
4 Feb.1900, 43 Talbot St.
Edward Maurice
[listed as F for female on certificate which is obviously an error]
father: ---
mother: Jane Elizabeth Booth a stitcher [formerly crossed out]
informant: Sarah Lee (her mark) present at birth 10 Wilson St.
registered 12 Feb.1900
I have copies of both certificates- send me your email address by PM and I'll forward them to you
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I need to find the link between Jane Elizabeth (Lizzie) and Rose Anne Gribben. Currently all I know for sure is that they lived about 0.2miles apart, a 5 minute walk, and were about the same age.
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There may not be a link. The "adoption" may have been handled by the Church or local GP.
There are just 2 Jane Elizabeth Booth births c. 1870 England.
One in Staffs to a Henry & Hannah (1869) & one in London to a Henry & Sarah (1870).
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Edward Maurice Booth
As I cannot find any other Booth born around the right time (03/02/1900), I am coming round to the likelihood that Edward Maurice Booth may be my GF.
This in turn points to Jane Elizabeth Booth, his mother, being my GGM. The 1901 Belfast census states that she was born in England. Her birth date would fall between Apr 1870 and Mar 1871.
This would actually fit in with what my mother told me, that the Booths heralded from Staffordshire.
Looking at the 1871 census for England and at Free BMD, there are a number of possiblities, but 3 stand out.
Jane Elizabeth Booth, b June 1870, St Geo in the East (Now Stepney, London). Found her in Free BMD but not the 1871 census in the London area. Possible her family lived elsewhere, or she died pre-census 1871
Jane Booth, b1871, Leek, Staffs - no mention of her living anywhere other than Leek, and her death in 1921 is in Leek as well
Jane Booth, no dob but christened on 16/09/1870 in Tunstall, Wolstanton Nr Stoke, Staffs.
This one is interesting as her father is Edward Booth and her mother Agnes Elizabeth. In the 1881 census the family have moved to Stone, Staffs. By the 1891 census the family have moved again, to Uttoxeter in Staffs, but Jane (now aged 20) is no longer at home.
still digging :)
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I saw those but without a marriage cert. giving her father's name it's not possible to say which one she is.
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I saw those but without a marriage cert. giving her father's name it's not possible to say which one she is.
I know, and the birth certificate mentions no father while the following years census states she is unmarried.
Not sure where I can go from here
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Jane Elizabeth Booth, b June 1870, St Geo in the East (Now Stepney, London). Found her in Free BMD but not the 1871 census in the London area. Possible her family lived elsewhere, or she died pre-census 1871
Wondering if this might be the above JEB born c 1870 St George in the East
1871 RG10; Piece: 530; Folio: 34; Page: 5
BOOTH
Henry 32 Lambeth Carpenter & joiner
Sarah 25 Southwark
Sarah 5 Bermondsey
Ellen 2 St George in the East, Surrey
JANE 1 dittoed
1881 RG11; Piece: 472; Folio: 86; Page: 46
Henry Booth Carpenter, Sarah
Sarah 15, JANE 11, Anne 6, Henry 5 & Sophia 2
Jane BOOTH age 19 father Henry Carpenter (dec’d)
married James Pearce on 15 Oct 1888 at St Mary Spital Square
Jane & James Pearce witnessed her sister Annie Elizabeth Booth’s marriage to Frederick Harvey
Jane Booth, no dob but christened on 16/09/1870 in Tunstall, Wolstanton Nr Stoke, Staffs.
This one is interesting as her father is Edward Booth and her mother Agnes Elizabeth.
In the 1881 census the family have moved to Stone, Staffs.
still digging :)
Is the the 1881 census you are referring too?
1881 RG11; Piece: 2693; Folio: 52; Page: 8
Walton Hill House
Edward BOOTH 43 Biddulph Farmer 98 Acres Employs 3 Men & 1 Boy,wife Agnes 32,
JANE 10 Tunstall, Sarah V 8, Joseph 4, William 3
Marriage (FreeBMD)
1869 Wolstanton
Edward Booth
name on same page
Agnes Elizabeth Tellwright
1869 Mow Cop, St Thomas (Staffordshire BMD)
BOOTH Edward
TELLWRIGHT Agnes E
2 June The will with two Codicils of William Tellwright formerly of the Beeches but late of March Cottage both in Wolstanton. Died 15 April 1885 proved at the Prinicipal Registry by William Anthony Marsden Tellwright, son of Beeches Colliery Proprietor & Edward BOOTH, Farmer of Walton Hill House Stone two of the Exexcutors, Personal Estate £5,523 17s. 7d.
from Staffordshire BMD mother's maiden name TELLWRIGHT
1870 BOOTH Jane Tunstall
1872 BOOTH Sarah Victoria Tunstall
1874 BOOTH Mary Agnes Tunstall
1876 BOOTH Joseph Tunstall
1877 BOOTH William Stone
Agnes Elizabeth Booth widow of Wolstanton Staffordshire died 16 June 1917
Probate 21 march to Sarah Victoria Booth spinster & William Booth hay merchant
Effects £181 12s. 5d.
By the 1891 census the family have moved again, to Uttoxeter in Staffs, but Jane (now aged 20) is no longer at home.
1891c Booth family
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W3GJ-9PZ
Edward 45 , Agnes E 34, Jennie 18, Victoria 16, Joseph 13, William 12
Did they make a mistake with the daughter's name Jennie and her father Edward's age?
Is this the same Booth family on 1901 census if so who is Jamie?
1901 RG13; Piece: 2592; Folio: 46; Page: 34
Edward BOOTH 72 Tunstall corn dealer, wife Agnes 55,
Jamie 30 , Victoria 28 , Joseph 25 & Wm 23
Have you checked 1911 census ?
not sure if this is the same Booth family because of their ages from 1901 census
Agnes 62 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-66T
William 26 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-66Y
Jane 30 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-66B
Victoria 28 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-661
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Hi Ladyhawk.
Im trying to pin down my Jane Elizabeth Booth but feel like Ive hit a brick wall.
I know she was born in England and that she was unmarried. I know she went by the name Lizzie and that she was in Belfast in 1900 and 1901.
At this stage I dont know if she left Edward Maurice Booth with Rose Ann Gribben and returned to her home in England, or if she died and Rose 'adopted' the child.
Any ideas where I can continue looking, Im going round in circles
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I have a Jane Elizabeth Booth (Lizzie), born England 1870/71, possibly in Staffordshire.
In 1900 she has a child in Belfast, Edward Maurice (or Morris) Booth
1901 she is still in Belfast according to 1901 census.
By 1911 census child is adopted and Jane Elizabeth (Lizzie) gone.
Im thinking she may have been sent away (to Belfast) pregnant, possibly returning after the birth. Either that or she dies between 1901 and 1911.
Are there any records of movement between England and Ireland then (I doubt it) or can anyone help or suggest where I can look now?
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Hi Ladyhawk
Jane Elizabeth Booth, b June 1870, St Geo in the East (Now Stepney, London). Found her in Free BMD but not the 1871 census in the London area. Possible her family lived elsewhere, or she died pre-census 1871
Wondering if this might be the above JEB born c 1870 St George in the East
1871 RG10; Piece: 530; Folio: 34; Page: 5
BOOTH
Henry 32 Lambeth Carpenter & joiner
Sarah 25 Southwark
Sarah 5 Bermondsey
Ellen 2 St George in the East, Surrey
JANE 1 dittoed
1881 RG11; Piece: 472; Folio: 86; Page: 46
Henry Booth Carpenter, Sarah
Sarah 15, JANE 11, Anne 6, Henry 5 & Sophia 2
Jane BOOTH age 19 father Henry Carpenter (dec’d)
married James Pearce on 15 Oct 1888 at St Mary Spital Square
Jane & James Pearce witnessed her sister Annie Elizabeth Booth’s marriage to Frederick Harvey
Jane Booth, no dob but christened on 16/09/1870 in Tunstall, Wolstanton Nr Stoke, Staffs.
This one is interesting as her father is Edward Booth and her mother Agnes Elizabeth.
In the 1881 census the family have moved to Stone, Staffs.
still digging :)
Is the the 1881 census you are referring too? Yes it is
1881 RG11; Piece: 2693; Folio: 52; Page: 8
Walton Hill House
Edward BOOTH 43 Biddulph Farmer 98 Acres Employs 3 Men & 1 Boy,wife Agnes 32,
JANE 10 Tunstall, Sarah V 8, Joseph 4, William 3
Marriage (FreeBMD)
1869 Wolstanton
Edward Booth
name on same page
Agnes Elizabeth Tellwright
1869 Mow Cop, St Thomas (Staffordshire BMD)
BOOTH Edward
TELLWRIGHT Agnes E
2 June The will with two Codicils of William Tellwright formerly of the Beeches but late of March Cottage both in Wolstanton. Died 15 April 1885 proved at the Prinicipal Registry by William Anthony Marsden Tellwright, son of Beeches Colliery Proprietor & Edward BOOTH, Farmer of Walton Hill House Stone two of the Exexcutors, Personal Estate £5,523 17s. 7d.
from Staffordshire BMD mother's maiden name TELLWRIGHT
1870 BOOTH Jane Tunstall
1872 BOOTH Sarah Victoria Tunstall
1874 BOOTH Mary Agnes Tunstall
1876 BOOTH Joseph Tunstall
1877 BOOTH William Stone
Agnes Elizabeth Booth widow of Wolstanton Staffordshire died 16 June 1917
Probate 21 march to Sarah Victoria Booth spinster & William Booth hay merchant
Effects £181 12s. 5d.
By the 1891 census the family have moved again, to Uttoxeter in Staffs, but Jane (now aged 20) is no longer at home.
1891c Booth family
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W3GJ-9PZ
Edward 45 , Agnes E 34, Jennie 18, Victoria 16, Joseph 13, William 12
Did they make a mistake with the daughter's name Jennie and her father Edward's age? Im pretty sure 'Jennie' is 'Jane' and mother should be 44, not 34
Is this the same Booth family on 1901 census if so who is Jamie? I think this is the same, 'Jamie' probably an error, but if it is Jane then unlikely to be the Jane Im after as she was in Belfast Census in March 1901. Edwards age is out, should be c55 years but occupation matches 1891 census
1901 RG13; Piece: 2592; Folio: 46; Page: 34
Edward BOOTH 72 Tunstall corn dealer, wife Agnes 55,
Jamie 30 , Victoria 28 , Joseph 25 & Wm 23
Have you checked 1911 census ?
not sure if this is the same Booth family because of their ages from 1901 census The ages on these census's seem to be all over the place, is that usual?
Agnes 62 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-66T
William 26 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-66Y
Jane 30 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-66B
Victoria 28 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW73-661
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Update
Edward Maurice Booth
As I cannot find any other Booth born around the right time (03/02/1900), I am coming round to the likelihood that Edward Maurice Booth may be my GF.
This in turn points to Jane Elizabeth Booth, his mother, being my GGM. The 1901 Belfast census states that she was born in England. Her birth date would fall between Apr 1870 and Mar 1871.
This would actually fit in with what my mother told me, that the Booths heralded from Staffordshire.
Looking at the 1871 census for England and at Free BMD, there are a number of possiblities, but 3 stand out.
Jane Elizabeth Booth, b June 1870, St Geo in the East (Now Stepney, London). Found her in Free BMD but not the 1871 census in the London area. Possible her family lived elsewhere, or she died pre-census 1871 This Jane married in 1888, so surname would then be Pearce
Jane Booth, b1871, Leek, Staffs - no mention of her living anywhere other than Leek, and her death in 1921 is in Leek as well
Jane Booth, no dob but christened on 16/09/1870 in Tunstall, Wolstanton Nr Stoke, Staffs.
This one is interesting as her father is Edward Booth and her mother Agnes Elizabeth. In the 1881 census the family have moved to Stone, Staffs. By the 1891 census the family have moved again, to Uttoxeter in Staffs, but Jane (now aged 20) is no longer at home.
still digging :)
Still no record I can find of this Jane returning to her family, or her death. She may have died in Belfast between 1901-1911 and left Edward with Rose Gribben, or she may have returned to England and left the child behind
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Hello,
I have come to this thread from today's new one.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=751101
Looking at 1891 census, you write that there is no sign of Jane with her parents, Edward and Agnes. There is a daughter, Jennie, 18 yrs who I would think is your Jane Elizabeth.
Heywood
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Hi.
An update on where I am now.
Edward Maurice (Morris) Booth, born 03.02.1900 (registered 04.02.1900). Mother Jane Elizabeth Booth, unmarried, 30 years old, English, of 43 Talbot St, Belfast
Still at this address on 1901 census
02.08.1903, Edward is baptised at St Patricks by Rose Anne Gribbon and Daniel Gribbon of 2 Stephen St. Eliza Booth named as mother but not present.
Daniel Gribbon dies in 1905
1911 census for 48 Kent St shows Rose Anne Gribben and Teddy (transcribed Ledley) Gribben. Ages fit and Kent St is very near to Talbot St and Stephens St. Later, in 1919 marriage certificate, Edward uses the name Edward Gribben Booth and is married from that same address.
Still cannot find what happened to Jane Elizabeth Booth (Lizzie). There is a death record for Eliza Booth 1901, right age, but married with children, wrong religion and Irish not English birth. Also, Edwards birth certificate says mothers birth name was Booth, not married name.
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Possibly of interest - in the same area of Belfast (St Anne's) as where the Gribben/McKenna etc. lot are living in 1911, in 1901 there is an English-born woman, Lizzie Booth, aged 30, unmarried, with a son Edward Morris Booth, aged 1, born Belfast.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/St__Anne_s/Talbot_Street/933944
Birth certificate now online-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02010/1772262.pdf
The 1901 death for Eliza Booth was eliminated ages ago- she was the wife of Thomas Booth and her death certificate confirms this-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05721/4614393.pdf
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Edward Morris should be Maurice, and that is grandfather.
The Eliza who died 1901 isn't the same woman unfortunately, wrong nationality, religion, plus Booth is her married name whereas Jane Elizabeth was born Booth and unmarried.
Thank you :)
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Morris and Maurice are different versions of the same name- in Ulster they are pronounced the same.
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Morris and Maurice are different versions of the same name- in Ulster they are pronounced the same.
Yes, Im agreeing with you :)
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Hello, me again!
Still going round in circles :)
I have Jane Elizabeth Booth giving birth to Edward in 1900, is at 43 Talbot Street with him in the 1901 census, but by August 1902 Edward is baptised by Rose Ann and Daniel Gribben.
I'm concluding that Jane Elizabeth either died or gave away the child during that period.
I've searched all the burial records I can find, and cannot trace her death, at least not in Belfast. One very close call, an Eliza Jane Booth who died in August 1901, but there are a number of reasons why she isnt the lady I'm looking for - - Booth was her married name, not birth name, she was buried with family members including husband and a child, and she appears at a different address in the same 1901 census where my Jane Elizabeth is at 43 Talbot Street.
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Back again and still no further on.
I'm concentrating on Jane Elizabeth Booth, known as Eliza or Lizzie at different times in her life. Aged 30 on 31/03/1901, so born between April 1870 and March 1871 in England. Unmarried, so her fathers surname was Booth.
Likely she lived in Staffordshire, England before moving to Belfast, Ireland where she was employed as a stitcher.
She had a son, Edward Maurice (or Morris) in 1900, and they were living at 43 Talbot Street, Belfast in March 1901. In 1903 Edward is baptised. Rose Ann and Daniel Gribben are present, Jane Elizabeth is listed as the mother but was not present - possible deceased, left Belfast, or unable to care for the child (hospitalised or prison?)
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She had a son, Edward Maurice (or Morris) in 1900, and they were living at 43 Talbot Street, Belfast in March 1901. In 1903 Edward is baptised. Rose Ann and Daniel Gribben are present, Jane Elizabeth is listed as the mother but was not present - possible deceased, left Belfast, or unable to care for the child (hospitalised or prison?)
There's these entries from Ireland, Prison Registers, 1790-1924 but 2nd entry gives next of kin hus. P Booth :(
Lizzie Booth
Admission Age: 34
Role: Prisoner
446
Birth Place: Liverpool
Admission Date: 1904
Admission Place: Dublin, Ireland
Jail: MOUNTJOY
Lizzie Booth
Admission Age: 34
Role: Prisoner
Birth Place: Liverpool
Admission Date: 9 Feb 1904
Admission Place: Dublin, Ireland
Charge: DRUNK
Jail: MOUNTJOY
Identification Number: 446
Edit to add - can't see anything for a Jane Elizabeth or Eliza Booth
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Thanks Ladyhawk, I'll look into those
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An unexpected twist.
Have been told by a cousin, and have been able to verify this, that her mother (my grandfather's daughter) was born in Bromley, Kent, England in 1924.
So, sometime after marrying in Belfast in 1919 my grandparents moved to England. After having at least one child they returned to Belfast, where my father was born in 1930.
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You can check for English births here (mother's maiden name will be listed)-
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search
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Thanks Aghadowey. Found her there.
Looks like they returned to Belfast sometime between 1924 and 1930 as my father was born in Belfast in 1930, a sister Rose was born in 1931 or 32, and another sister Margaret was born there in 1934.
Shame there doesn't seem to be an Irish version of free bmd